Anything more bad than a Gracie style Jiu Jitsu Fighter?

[bassturtle]

I am by no means a martial arts expert, but from an out sider's perspective it seems like once these little spider-monkey fighters gets on top of you, you're pretty much screwed. Once they get their legs around another fighter, it seems like they take their time and can pick and choose how they want to knock you the F out. Is there any other fighting style that covers on-the-ground grappeling like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

I'm just amazed at how practical it seems....and how ballsy the Gracie family is.

[Aaron Saunders]

Freestyle/Olympic wrestling, Greco-Roman, and judo?

BJJ is a great MA, one hell of a workout too.

[XavidmanX]

Yeah...BJJ kicks butt. I was going to try it out until I saw how much a buddy of mine was getting hurt. Always breaking something.

It really is very practical, though.

[JNowiski]

you know what's also very practical...a gun. that's just my take on it though.

[ADbassman]

Well, considering that UFC was basically concieved by the Gracies, the rules are kinda in their favor.

I study Dan Zan Ryu Jujitsu, which BJJ kinda stems from, as does Judo, Akido and some others. We have techniques that are effective against BJJ, but aren't allowed by the rules.

[bassturtle]

Originally Posted by JNowiski

you know what's also very practical...a gun. that's just my take on it though.

Word.

Still pretty neat to watch though. These bastiges are tough.

[bassturtle]

Originally Posted by XavidmanX

Yeah...BJJ kicks butt. I was going to try it out until I saw how much a buddy of mine was getting hurt. Always breaking something.

It really is very practical, though.

Yeah, I watched a couple of videos online and it's all about breaking arms and shoulders. "And from this position, you break his shoulder." "Once you have him in this arm bar, you simply rotate your hips to your right, breaking his arm in three places and tearing it out of socket." Yeash guys!

[bassturtle]

Originally Posted by ADbassman

Well, considering that UFC was basically concieved by the Gracies, the rules are kinda in their favor.

I study Dan Zan Ryu Jujitsu, which BJJ kinda stems from, as does Judo, Akido and some others. We have techniques that are effective against BJJ, but aren't allowed by the rules.

Yeah, but aside from the UFC BJJ still seems to ownzorz a lot of other MA styles. The average Kicky McKickerson doesn't seem to know what to do on the ground.

[ADbassman]

Originally Posted by bassturtle

Yeah, but aside from the UFC BJJ still seems to ownzorz a lot of other MA styles. The average Kicky McKickerson doesn't seem to know what to do on the ground.

True. Likewise, grapplers don't like getting punched in the face.

Living in a college town and sharing a practice space with other fighters, I get the oppertunity to go up against some BJJ guys fairly regularly. It's a good art for sure, though Dan Zan Ryu is useful against it.

[Tsal]

BJJ guys are very good in the mat - that's all they train, pretty much - but they aren't the only guys to win MMA matches. Here's something that works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE962hFKRQ4

[bassturtle]

Originally Posted by Tsal

BJJ guys are very good in the mat - that's all they train, pretty much - but they aren't the only guys to win MMA matches. Here's something that works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE962hFKRQ4

and that's one way to get out of an arm lock...bounce the dude on his neck. ouch.

[bassturtle]

and then there's this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpceOOk2zog

[Tsal]

If you try to be "bad" in a friendly match, as in showing off to your friends, I don't think there are too many arts that are better than BJJ, atleast if you don't want to bash open a skull.

Why BJJ is quite a dominant art in the MMA matches is because of three things: first, it's easier to bring someone down to the mat than it is to knock someone out with a punch. Second, it's easier to get a submission in the mat, than it is to get a knock-out in the mat. Third, the most effective close-quarter anti-grappling strikes - knees, headbutts and elbows - to be used when someone attempts a takedown or in the mat are banned from MMA matches IIRC.

For a MMA competitor, this means that if you are able to take or block a couple of punches while attempting a takedown, you are quite likely to succeed, and in the mat it's quite easy to block any punches or kicks into the head that might result to a knockout. So the person better in submission wrestling probably takes the match, since it's very hard to get out from the mat. Of course if a person is skilled in escaping the submission attempts, a couple of blows to the head usually ends the match.

Then again, BJJ isn't very effective in a brawl - even if the opponent doesn't use any elbow- or kneestrikes, doing the human sticker stuff to a guy on the floor doesn't exactly help when his mate firmly plants a boot up your nostril

[bassbully]

BJJ ruled early MMA since nobody had ever seen it or defenced it. Gracie's knew this and for a while had a money machine. The thing that stopped BJJ is ground and pounders BJJs dont like being striked...early on that is.
Gracie's like to hold lay low and submit strikes are secondary and not used in sport BJJ. Now that MMA is truly mixed its all good. Submissions, strikes etc rule. So no BJJ stright up style will win and offen will get your head beat in. It took the MA types a while to defence it and now its very beatable.

In a street fight self defence setting it could only be effective in a close combative fight one on one with no outsiders involved. The best bet is a MMA,with BJJ type of fighting style and combatives/street tactics training. The toughest dudes out there are the street fighters, and brawlers....never know where they are what they will do how many there are and if they have weapons....these guys are not a sport they can kill.

[Baryonyx]

Originally Posted by bassturtle

I am by no means a martial arts expert, but from an out sider's perspective it seems like once these little spider-monkey fighters gets on top of you, you're pretty much screwed. Once they get their legs around another fighter, it seems like they take their time and can pick and choose how they want to knock you the F out. Is there any other fighting style that covers on-the-ground grappeling like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

I'm just amazed at how practical it seems....and how ballsy the Gracie family is.

Judo has some extensive ground work and covers many of the same holds as Jiu Jitsu and BJJ (though a few of them are taught but not used because they have been banned from competition). Muay Thai also has a lot of locks and holds which mirror some of those seen in traditional Jiu Jitsu. However, just because you get taken down by someone who practices BJJ does not mean they have their pick of options on how to "knock you the F out".

In fact, BJJ fighters and Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighters often have shoddy standup and a terrible stance, given that it's not the most "well rounded" of arts. I'd take a good nak mauy over a BJJ practicioner any day. "Ground fighting" is all well and good in competition fighting like MMA and Abu Dhabi style competition, but in a real fight, the second you go down fingers will go in eyes, balls will be stepped on and it will get very messy (and this is without your opponents friends kicking you all over while you're rolling around on the floor). Trying to pull a mataleon in that situation is not going to work. If someone tries to drag you down in a fight, you'd best try and stay standing-you have the strikers advantage and you can run if you need to.

Of course, I'm not going to bad mouth "ground fighting" arts all day, I did Judo for three years and whatnot, but I'm much more at home with muay thai, which has useful applications in real combat (especially if you can find somewhere to learn "true" muay thai and muay boran and not just the moves that are allowed in competition fights.) Because BJJ is not "practical", if you're looking to learn a martial art that looks impressive and you're not that bothered about learning things that will actually be useful in a fight, go try TKD.

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by Tsal

Then again, BJJ isn't very effective in a brawl - even if the opponent doesn't use any elbow- or kneestrikes, doing the human sticker stuff to a guy on the floor doesn't exactly help when his mate firmly plants a boot up your nostril

Excellent point. As a sport, MMA is fun to watch. In the real world, not so much. I used to argue with a co-worker on this very point. (I'm a 2nd degree in TKD and trained in Kali and jun fan, BTW.) My point was always in-line with yours: How many one-on-one street fights have you seen? Me -- ZERO. The guy you're fighting almost always has buddies waiting to take you out, so the ground is the LAST place you want to be.

Trust me, knocking someone out isn't necessary. Incapacitating them is easy to do quickly, so you can get the hell out. 'Cause you don't want to be grappling on the ground with someone when the cops show up. If you haven't been kicked in the head multiple times by then, that is.

[middy]

Originally Posted by bassturtle

Anything more bad than a Gracie style Jiu Jitsu Fighter?

How about a combination of Sambo, Judo, incredible strength, devastating punches, superb conditioning, and an absolutely impeccable sense of balance?

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by bassturtle

Anything more bad than a Gracie style Jiu Jitsu Fighter?

My Jiu Jitsu instructor (7th dan) claims that Judo masters are to be feared above all.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by MonetBass

Excellent point. As a sport, MMA is fun to watch. In the real world, not so much.

The guy you're fighting almost always has buddies waiting to take you out, so the ground is the LAST place you want to be.

Trust me, knocking someone out isn't necessary. Incapacitating them is easy to do quickly, so you can get the hell out. 'Cause you don't want to be grappling on the ground with someone when the cops show up. If you haven't been kicked in the head multiple times by then, that is.

+1

[Gumby4]

Originally Posted by MonetBass

Excellent point. As a sport, MMA is fun to watch. In the real world, not so much. I used to argue with a co-worker on this very point. (I'm a 2nd degree in TKD and trained in Kali and jun fan, BTW.) My point was always in-line with yours: How many one-on-one street fights have you seen? Me -- ZERO. The guy you're fighting almost always has buddies waiting to take you out, so the ground is the LAST place you want to be.

Trust me, knocking someone out isn't necessary. Incapacitating them is easy to do quickly, so you can get the hell out. 'Cause you don't want to be grappling on the ground with someone when the cops show up. If you haven't been kicked in the head multiple times by then, that is.

True to a point.

Our martial arts school teaches grappling techniques since there is a chance that you will end up on the ground during a scuffle. Of course, we are taught to use grappling as a way to get back on your feet asap.

Every form of martial arts has its good and bad points. MMA is not a new thing. Most veterans of the arts always incorporate techniques from various forms. It's just now MMA has a formal title.