Bigfoot: a discussion

[gonzorob]

So I was watching Monsterquest on the History Channel last night. They have done numerous shows on the yeti, red ape, skunk ape, and sasquatch. All different povs with different witnesses all over the world. Last nights eposode focused on the northwestern native american relationship with the animal.

They have cave markings dating 1000+ years depicting the "hairy beast", and researchers have found that the animal is depicted in everyday life much like deer, elk, and bear. It was originally thought that bigfoot was only a part of their spiritual beliefs. Now they are looking at it a bit differently. Most of the natives that they interviewed claimed that their ancestors spoke of bigfoot as an ancient people. Not an animal, and that there was at one time a great falling out between the species.

Now you can believe what you want, and I personally am a seeing is believing kind of guy, but this show made a thousand different good points. And I wont even get into the research that has been done on the patterson film.

The thing is that when I was 10 years old, I saw something that I could not explain. I was camping with family in southern Illinois and my cousin and I went out into the woods exploring. We approached a clearing and I distinctly remember smelling a strong earthy smell. Seconds later something large began moving away from us just outside of the clearing.

I can't say for sure what I saw that day. It was just a large dark mass from where I was standing, but I am sure of what it wasn't. Everytime I have ever brought it up I have been ridiculed, but it seems like the scientific community is finally admitting that there is a possibility of a North American great ape.

There are many reasons to not believe. No body, no hair samples, no feces. Very rare instances of it being caught on film. But if this is an intelligent animal that changes a few things.

Anyway, just thought this would be a good discussion.
Flame away!

[NJL]

Originally Posted by gonzorob

...possibility of a North American great ape.

Maybe it's a Grape Ape?

[Relic]

No flaming here. The only thing that I can say is that once upon a time, I was a firm believer in the whole cryptozoology thing. So much so that I read voraciously and watched every TV show etc.
It actually had the opposite effect. The more I researched on my own, the less I believed and started to realize that the human brain and mind are a lot more remarkable and fascinating than an 8' tall semi-legendary ape.
One thing to note - I had a talk about this a while back with a friend of native-American ancestory. According to him, the fact that bigfoot/sasquatch is depicted as an every day animal are weak proof of it's existance as to many native American cultures, there was no distinction drawn between the "real" world vs the spirit world.

[McHaven]

I'm a big fan of cryptozoology but I have my doubts on big foot. There are just so many hoaxes and lack of evidence to make me believe that they still exist. I admit, maybe they were more prevalent years ago, and have died out now. Will we ever really know? I doubt it, but we shouldn't stop the search.

If you're interested in things like this, check out www.cryptomundo.com

[gonzorob]

Originally Posted by Relic

No flaming here. The only thing that I can say is that once upon a time, I was a firm believer in the whole cryptozoology thing. So much so that I read voraciously and watched every TV show etc.
It actually had the opposite effect. The more I researched on my own, the less I believed and started to realize that the human brain and mind are a lot more remarkable and fascinating than an 8' tall semi-legendary ape.
One thing to note - I had a talk about this a while back with a friend of native-American ancestory. According to him, the fact that bigfoot/sasquatch is depicted as an every day animal are weak proof of it's existance as to many native American cultures, there was no distinction drawn between the "real" world vs the spirit world.

I agree that you have to take the Native American depictions with a grain of salt. Its just interesting from a research point of view, not necessarily scientific. The same thing applies to Thunderbirds. This is all probably just carried over from stories passed down by the ancients, but whatever it was that I saw left me with a whole bunch of questions.

[Phalex]

If the native Americans saw a European guy like me bathing in a river, they would have been very freaked out and documented the appearance of the "Hairy Beast".

[gonzorob]

Originally Posted by McHaven

I'm a big fan of cryptozoology but I have my doubts on big foot. There are just so many hoaxes and lack of evidence to make me believe that they still exist. I admit, maybe they were more prevalent years ago, and have died out now. Will we ever really know? I doubt it, but we shouldn't stop the search.

If you're interested in things like this, check out www.cryptomundo.com

Thanks for the link, looks cool.

The only thing that makes me curious is the way sightings are normally described. It almost seems as if the animal is only seen when it wants to be (with a few notable exceptions). Many of the sightings in the northwest are reported after washed out logging roads are opened up after being closed for years.

These guys know what elk and bear look like.

[NJL]

Originally Posted by Phalex

If the native Americans saw a European guy like me bathing in a river, they would have been very freaked out and documented the appearance of the "Hairy Beast".

or probably "The Hairy Breast"

[gonzorob]

Originally Posted by NJL

or probably "The Hairy Breast"

"The Hairy Butt-crack" ??

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by NJL

or probably "The Hairy Breast"

Touche' sir!

[Relic]

Originally Posted by gonzorob

I agree that you have to take the Native American depictions with a grain of salt. Its just interesting from a research point of view, not necessarily scientific. The same thing applies to Thunderbirds. This is all probably just carried over from stories passed down by the ancients, but whatever it was that I saw left me with a whole bunch of questions.

Oh no doubt!
Here in NJ, we have a fairly large tract of forest in the south/central region known as the Pine Barrens. Although we are a super-densely packed state, when you're in the pines, you feel like you're on a different planet. I've seen/heard/smelled some freaky stuff there as well.

EDIT - yes, I know... it's NJ and me smelling/seeing/hearing freaky stuff is is a way of life...alls I can say is the 1st person who jersey-bashes is going to have the jersey devil sicced on their arse.

[gonzorob]

Originally Posted by Relic

Oh no doubt!
Here in NJ, we have a fairly large tract of forest in the south/central region known as the Pine Barrens. Although we are a super-densely packed state, when you're in the pines, you feel like you're on a different planet. I've seen/heard/smelled some freaky stuff there as well.

I've wasted countless company hours reading stories on the wierdnj website.

[NJL]

Originally Posted by gonzorob

"The Hairy Butt-crack" ??

and that would probably be me and the majority of San Antonio LOL

[Georynn]

Originally Posted by gonzorob

There are many reasons to not believe. No body, no hair samples, no feces. Very rare instances of it being caught on film. But if this is an intelligent animal that changes a few things.

Here is something posted in another thread but somehow surprisingly pertinent...

A parable of skepticism


"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle -- but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick." And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all?


The Dragon In My Garage
From The Demon-Haunted World
by Carl Sagan

[bobba66]

"The Legend Of Boggy Creek" made a believer out of me. For a little while anyway...

[gonzorob]

Originally Posted by Georynn

Here is something posted in another thread but somehow surprisingly pertinent...

I see the point. I have been called crazy and a liar. I never once claimed that what I saw was bigfoot, just something I had never seen before or since.

The problem is that you have to wade through all the friggin crazies to get to the large portion of "regular" people that have had encounters they can't explain. After awhile we can't just chalk it all up to mass hysteria or misidentification.

I mean, scientist are starting to slowly admit that its possible. North America has some extremely large swaths of land that hasn't seen a human in many years, in some cases never.

But I understand that once you start assuming and giving characteristics to something without facts you can turn it into whatever you want.

[Georynn]

Originally Posted by gonzorob

I see the point. I have been called crazy and a liar. I never once claimed that what I saw was bigfoot, just something I had never seen before or since.

The problem is that you have to wade through all the friggin crazies to get to the large portion of "regular" people that have had encounters they can't explain. After awhile we can't just chalk it all up to mass hysteria or misidentification.

I mean, scientist are starting to slowly admit that its possible. North America has some extremely large swaths of land that hasn't seen a human in many years, in some cases never.

But I understand that once you start assuming and giving characteristics to something without facts you can turn it into whatever you want.

I wasn't saying you were crazy, I just thought the story was a neat parable.

So where do all these very similar stories come from?

Mass hypnosis? Subliminal messages from the TV? I need to put on my tin-foil deflector-beanie!!

You should read the entire parable... Carl Sagan at his best...

[gonzorob]

Originally Posted by Georynn

I wasn't saying you were crazy, I just thought the story was a neat parable.

So where do all these very similar stories come from?

Mass hypnosis? Subliminal messages from the TV? I need to put on my tin-foil deflector-beanie!!

You should read the entire parable... Carl Sagan at his best...

Oh I know you weren't calling me crazy. I understand where you are coming from.

[Stu L.]

I've never thought much about Bigfoot like creatures, but I have a deep fear of lake monsters. I know, I'm a loser