Bike Thief! (Another Race Thread)

[Dr. Cheese]

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/double-s...hlights-racism

Interesting.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/double-s...hlights-racism

Interesting.

I thought this thread was going to be about theft during bike races.

[jonathan_matos5]

oh that kind of race. . .


i though this was gonna be about some pro-cyclist getting their bike stolen.

[Mark Latimour]

I will watch the video when I get home, but I hope its not one of those "Tyra Banks" style videos where she sees what its like to be a fat person, but instead of making her just overweight (like most people), she is made into a grossly obese person who is ugly and drooling etc and then wonders why people treat her oddly.

Edit: I'm also digging this article on "The Whitest Black Folks We Know" : http://www.theroot.com/multimedia/bl...-folks-we-know . Thanks for the link!

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

I will watch the video when I get home, but I hope its not one of those "Tyra Banks" style videos where she sees what its like to be a fat person, but instead of making her just overweight (like most people), she is made into a grossly obese person who is ugly and drooling etc and then wonders why people treat her oddly.

Edit: I'm also digging this article on "The Whitest Black Folks We Know" : http://www.theroot.com/multimedia/bl...-folks-we-know . Thanks for the link!

I think it's a pretty good film, and I also think it is not out to make anyone look bad either.

[smeet]

Wow, very striking experiment. This is the reality of racism today. It's subtle enough that people don't really know that they are racist, but in the right situation, it's definitely there.

I firmly believe though that if you do this experiment again in a generation, the results will be totally different.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by smeet

Wow, very striking experiment. This is the reality of racism today. It's subtle enough that people don't really know that they are racist, but in the right situation, it's definitely there.

I firmly believe though that if you do this experiment again in a generation, the results will be totally different.

We should really avoid confusing the concepts of "racism" and "prejudice". I haven't seen the video, but from the description it sounds like this is a case of prejudice rather than racism. It may well be that the underlying reason for that prejudice is racism, but you can't tell that from a video unless people are admitting that they think black people are, for example, inferior to white people. Having a prejudicial attitude towards another race is not necessarily any better than being racist, but its not the same thing either.

[MJ5150]

I saw that. Cool show overall, but that segment was interesting.

So how do we change this perception of black folks?

-Mike

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

I saw that. Cool show overall, but that segment was interesting.

So how do we change this perception of black folks?

-Mike

I think the best thing anyone can do is to be conscious of one's preconceptions. I think we all need to make a serious effort to be consistent in how we judge others.

We can only be consistent when we allow ourselves to be assessed by others because most of us see ourselves as inherently fair.

[Kwesi]

Very interesting but not surprising. Unfortunately, this is the reality of racism in America and I don't see it changing that much in the near future.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I think the best thing anyone can do is to be conscious of one's preconceptions. I think we all need to make a serious effort to be consistent in how we judge others.

We can only be consistent when we allow ourselves to be assessed by others because most of us see ourselves as inherently fair.

Part of the problem is that as a society, we tend to "rely" on statistics and probabilities as fair methods for making assumptions in some areas and unfair in others. For example, most people would not have an issue with someone saying that, statistically, you are far more likely to survive a car crash if you are wearing a seatbelt. That's undoubtably true and fairly uncontroversial. However, when its applied to more unreliable statistical samples (race / ethnicity of terrorists) etc then it is unfair. But, because its seen as a safe approach in some areas of our lives, people want to apply it across the board when they don't understand why its not appropriate to apply statistics (either because of bad sampling or other factors) in relation to every aspect of life.

I don't know whether in the place where the video was shot, the statistics are unfavourable to the african american population, but I'd imagine that may (unfairly) play a role in the way people perceive potential criminal acts. The fact that the article itself uses the phrase "benefit of the doubt" shows the inherent link to statistics and probability that the people viewing the acts are making.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Part of the problem is that as a society, we tend to "rely" on statistics and probabilities as fair methods for making assumptions in some areas and unfair in others. For example, most people would not have an issue with someone saying that, statistically, you are far more likely to survive a car crash if you are wearing a seatbelt. That's undoubtably true and fairly uncontroversial. However, when its applied to more unreliable statistical samples (race / ethnicity of terrorists) etc then it is unfair. But, because its seen as a safe approach in some areas of our lives, people want to apply it across the board when they don't understand why its not appropriate to apply statistics (either because of bad sampling or other factors) in relation to every aspect of life.

I don't know whether in the place where the video was shot, the statistics are unfavourable to the african american population, but I'd imagine that may (unfairly) play a role in the way people perceive potential criminal acts.

Yes, statistics are only as good as the methodology used to acquire them. In the case of crime, one can make a solid argument that African Americans are arrested and convicted at much higher rates than other groups. It is much harder to prove the argument that arrest rates may reflect an unwillingess to monitor potential white criminals with the same level of scrutiny.

[DblG]

I wonder where that was shot...it was mostly white people in that park (that I seen on camera).

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by DblG

I wonder where that was shot...it was mostly white people in that park (that I seen on camera).

I am curious too. The funny thing is that although almost everyone thought the black guy was thief, they seemed to show no fear of him. In a different setting, none of these people would have been willing to approach a young black man that they thought was committing a felony, let alone confront him and take his tools!

In all fairness, an experiment like this would have to be set up in a place where people would feel relatively safe and comfortable.

[LaklandBass]

DblG raises a great point. Now im going to be totally honest which will probably reveal my own prejudice.
To me it looked like a rather nice area. There was a road biker riding past, most people there were adults and dressed fairly well. To me the white theif looked like a hipster that would probably enjoy biking but smoked too much pot and lost his key. The black theif looked more "hood" and out of place for that area. He also didnt look like the type to use a "full suspension" mountain bike with his baggy jeans and all.

Consider this.... does this video "prove racism"? Or does it say something about the people of that area?

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by LaklandBass

DblG raises a great point. Now im going to be totally honest which will probably reveal my own prejudice.
To me it looked like a rather nice area. There was a road biker riding past, most people there were adults and dressed fairly well. To me the white theif looked like a hipster that would probably enjoy biking but smoked too much pot and lost his key. The black theif looked more "hood" and out of place for that area. He also didnt look like the type to use a "full suspension" mountain bike with his baggy jeans and all.

Consider this.... does this video "prove racism"? Or does it say something about the people of that area?

As noted earlier the video doesn't prove racism, it demonstrates prejudice. The secondary question is whether that prejudice is based on reasonable grounds or not. Not having seen the video I can't judge, but based on what you have said its quite possible that the producers "set up" certain elements of the film to highlight more clearly the prejudice in that area.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by LaklandBass

DblG raises a great point. Now im going to be totally honest which will probably reveal my own prejudice.
To me it looked like a rather nice area. There was a road biker riding past, most people there were adults and dressed fairly well. To me the white theif looked like a hipster that would probably enjoy biking but smoked too much pot and lost his key. The black theif looked more "hood" and out of place for that area. He also didnt look like the type to use a "full suspension" mountain bike with his baggy jeans and all.

Consider this.... does this video "prove racism"? Or does it say something about the people of that area?

I would argue that you raised some good points. I did feel that the black actor looked rather "hoodish," but he was pretty much wearing the same thing as the white actor: a t-shirt, jeans, and a baseball cap worn backwards. Could that have been my own predjudice?

As for proving racism, that is always difficult. In Post Civil Rights America, no white person will ever admit to judging someone differently because of race, so most situations will be open to interpretation.

It was the two black women who openly admitted that race factored into their assesment of the white actor. Since blacks, by and large, are not seen as the people in power, there tends to be less pressure on them to stick to the "color-blind" trope.

[MakiSupaStar]

Wait. They're brothers?

[Unrepresented]

Note to self: white people can steal bikes with relative immunity. Pick up a pair of bolt cutters on the way home from work tonight.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

As for proving racism, that is always difficult. In Post Civil Rights America, no white person will ever admit to judging someone differently because of race, so most situations will be open to interpretation.

isn't THAT sentence a fine example of prejudice and profiling as well? How is that any different from the judgments made in the video?


At any rate whether you call the situation in the video racism/racial profiling/prejudice, it's a good video and will hopefully make folks think a bit. That's often the problem - there's no thinking involved, only reactions