Book advising corporal punishment for kids-leads to deaths

[Radical Edward]

I just read this, and I am appalled that a book like this was even published. Please sign the petition Human Rights Petition: Amazon: Refuse to carry books which advocate the physical abuse of children. | Change.org

Ugh... just ugh...

Here's the article. : Pastor

[cassanova]

I don't agree with abusing children but I also don't agree with petitions demanding books stores not carry controversial literature either. IMO, it's restricting the first amendment and a slippery slope. Ban one controversial book, that outrages/offends some people, and more book banning will certainly follow.

The article stated some Christian groups are trying to have it banned. Without delving into religious beliefs, if they want a book banned, then it should be the Bible, because more people have been killed over the words in that book, than any other book than any book ever written. Just saying.

That's all I'm going to say on this, because I don't want to get in trouble for the no politics/religion rule here.

[Kwesi]

Cass, you effin' nailed it. Every word.

[Simo98]

Human rights petition: Take away personal freedoms.

Riight.


Violence and abuse against children is a big no-no, some people would even go so far as to say any sort of physical discipline (which I personally don't have anything against provided it is used correctly) is a no-no. Buying a book however, is not illegal last time I checked and if I want to buy a book on child discipline, making meth, or how to start a cult, I believe I am perfectly within my rights to do so provided that me reading a book is not directly harming anyone in the immediate vicinity.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by cassanova

I don't agree with abusing children but I also don't agree with petitions demanding books stores not carry controversial literature either. IMO, it's restricting the first amendment and a slippery slope. Ban one controversial book, that outrages/offends some people, and more book banning will certainly follow.

The article stated some Christian groups are trying to have it banned. Without delving into religious beliefs, if they want a book banned, then it should be the Bible, because more people have been killed over the words in that book, than any other book than any book ever written. Just saying.

That's all I'm going to say on this, because I don't want to get in trouble for the no politics/religion rule here.

+1

Edit - Will add, that people that are blind to the harm of doing such things to children, would likely have done it anyway. Wonder how many use the book simply to 'validate' thier own twists.

[hrodbert696]

Originally Posted by cassanova

I don't agree with abusing children but I also don't agree with petitions demanding books stores not carry controversial literature either. IMO, it's restricting the first amendment and a slippery slope. Ban one controversial book, that outrages/offends some people, and more book banning will certainly follow.

+1 to this part.

The article stated some Christian groups are trying to have it banned. Without delving into religious beliefs, if they want a book banned, then it should be the Bible, because more people have been killed over the words in that book, than any other book than any book ever written. Just saying.

That's all I'm going to say on this, because I don't want to get in trouble for the no politics/religion rule here.

Ummm.... you just did. If you don't want to get into it, then DON'T GET INTO IT.

The causes for religious conflict are always complex and result from the interaction of many factors, religious and non-religious. Simplistic soapbox talk doesn't help anything.

As for the book itself, I haven't read it, but from the sound of things it's classic fringe thinking, taking an originally sound idea and going too far with it. Physical discipline, with common-sense moderation, has been a component of responsible parenting in cultures around the world as far back as human history can go. But these people have taken that as an excuse to inflict whatever horrible abuse they want on kids. I'm not in favor of banning books but I'm all in favor of the major distributors refusing to do business with them.

[JtheJazzMan]

Im not sure refusing to sell is the same as banning the literature. That connotates being illegal to own certain literature.

I would be in favour of denying the author profit for such a book - though I wouldnt want it banned. In fact Id prefer people to see it as a warning, and to name and shame those associated with the book.

Online pirates - do yo thang.

[sandmangeck]

Meh

[Relic]

Originally Posted by cassanova

I don't agree with abusing children but I also don't agree with petitions demanding books stores not carry controversial literature either. IMO, it's restricting the first amendment and a slippery slope. Ban one controversial book, that outrages/offends some people, and more book banning will certainly follow.

The article stated some Christian groups are trying to have it banned. Without delving into religious beliefs, if they want a book banned, then it should be the Bible, because more people have been killed over the words in that book, than any other book than any book ever written. Just saying.

That's all I'm going to say on this, because I don't want to get in trouble for the no politics/religion rule here.

More people have been killed over tribalism/ "us vs them" mentality than anything else. Blaming it on "a book" is missing the point entirely. Ban the bible, then next the koran, then next...? How about we work on changing attitudes and educating folks rather than banning anything that could possibly be used to give one group some sort of imagined "leverage" or "superiority" over another?
But yes, I def agree with your first paragraph.

[fenderhutz]

In Soviet Russia, book bans you.

[Phalex]

So, we're protesting the sale of the Bible?

[fenderhutz]

Originally Posted by Phalex

So, we're protesting the sale of the Bible?

I don't think so, they seem to be comparing the sales of a book that says corporal punishment is ok and a kid died. Then it was pointed out if the reason to ban the book is because someone died then the bible as an example has caused more death than any other book ever written.

That's what I read.

[steven1068]

Originally Posted by cassanova

The article stated some Christian groups are trying to have it banned. Without delving into religious beliefs, if they want a book banned, then it should be the Bible, because more people have been killed over the words in that book, than any other book than any book ever written. Just saying.

That's all I'm going to say on this, because I don't want to get in trouble for the no politics/religion rule here.

Oh ok I'm glad that's all your going to say. I'm sure suggesting that we ban the holy book of the largest world religion will not get you into and trouble over religion.

It's not the words in the book that have caused people to die, it's their misinterpretation. If you read it, you'll find that Jesus' message is one of love and acceptance, and not violence of any kind (i.e. Turn the other cheek instead of striking back)

[fhm555]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

+1

Edit - Will add, that people that are blind to the harm of doing such things to children, would likely have done it anyway. Wonder how many use the book simply to 'validate' thier own twists.

Kinda like the accelerator pedal on my truck? I've got over 120 mph at my disposal anytime I want it, but so far Ive never used it because it's dangerous to do so on public roads. That little pedal under my right foot gives me the choice to be reasonable or stupid, I don't need a hard stop to keep me from pushing it all the way to the floor.

Reasonable people don't need to be told not to beat their children and most certainly won't be inclined to do so because they read a book saying it was OK. They will simply dismiss the idea as the rantings of a self important expert who most likely has no actual child rearing experience.

I'd bet my dad wore out more than a few belts warming up my rear when I was a kid, and look how I turned out...well...maybe that's not a very good example...

[PSPookie]

I don't think those books should be banned, as ridiculous as they are; however, I don't think that any reputable book retailer should choose to sell them.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by fhm555

Kinda like the accelerator pedal on my truck? I've got over 120 mph at my disposal anytime I want it, but so far Ive never used it because it's dangerous to do so on public roads. That little pedal under my right foot gives me the choice to be reasonable or stupid, I don't need a hard stop to keep me from pushing it all the way to the floor.

Reasonable people don't need to be told not to beat their children and most certainly won't be inclined to do so because they read a book saying it was OK. They will simply dismiss the idea as the rantings of a self important expert who most likely has no actual child rearing experience.

I'd bet my dad wore out more than a few belts warming up my rear when I was a kid, and look how I turned out...well...maybe that's not a very good example...

That's what I'm getting at, people will use it to validate themselves. I doubt you'd get any resonable person reading that book and thinking it was "alright".

(wasn't sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me there )

I agree with Cassanovas Bible analogy. The majority of problems caused by religions, are people who are using religious literature to validate what they believe. That's why the extremist forms of religious followers tend to twist and pervert the literature to meet their own beliefs and to try to validate what they doing.

It isn't against religion, IMO, it's against people using a book to validate their own hatred, their own problems etc.

The book itself isn't a problem.

[mellowinman]

Book banning is always bad business. However, the petition is asking Amazon to make a business decision not to carry the book. That is not the same as censorship. The government isn't decreeing the book illegal. If I were Amazon, I would not carry this book, plain and simple, just as I wouldn't carry hard core porn, or the Anarchist's Cookbook.
(note: the Anarchist Cookbook is available on Amazon, and its author has written about his wish that it was not)

[Relic]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

That's what I'm getting at, people will use it to validate themselves. I doubt you'd get any resonable person reading that book and thinking it was "alright".

(wasn't sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me there )

I agree with Cassanovas Bible analogy. The majority of problems caused by religions, are people who are using religious literature to validate what they believe. That's why the extremist forms of religious followers tend to twist and pervert the literature to meet their own beliefs and to try to validate what they doing.

It isn't against religion, IMO, it's against people using a book to validate their own hatred, their own problems etc.

The book itself isn't a problem.

I agree, the book itself isn't the problem but neither is "religion" per se. It's the fact that the human psyche is part of the equation. Some very noble things have also been done in the name or "religion" so it's not a case where it automatically equals trouble.. It's when things get twisted and distorted that trouble happens like you said, yes. But it's not a book or a religion that does that. It's a whole lot of things that have utterly nothing to do with either, (lack of education, poverty, despair, etc) so banning things? Won't do a darn thing. If it's not religion driving the bus, it's politics, it's economic status, it's race..just pick one and run with it.

[BassChuck]

People will look for distractions from doing what is right, and for philosophies for doing as they wish. This book (and many others) offers a philosophy for these people to do something they feel is correct. Blaming the book is wrong. The people who abuse their children should be punished.
The real lesson here, IMHO, is that we need to be responsible for our actions.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

People will look for distractions from doing what is right, and for philosophies for doing as they wish. This book (and many others) offers a philosophy for these people to do something they feel is correct. Blaming the book is wrong. The people who abuse their children should be punished.
The real lesson here, IMHO, is that we need to be responsible for our actions.

Sometimes I think that in "modern society" there is a profound lack of that mentality. It always seems to be "someone else's fault" or something outside of one's control. Maybe I'm just gettin' old!