Buy & Sell ethic issue.......

[boriology101]

Wow... what a huge disappointment... I am really blaming myself for my stupidity...

I recently purchased a bass from a person here. I paid 1500 + shipping cost to him. And, I realized today that he's the second owner of the bass and he paid $1200 including shipping for the bass from the 1st owner. I found the sales ad of the first owner of the bass today because the seller erased his ad while I was trying to find the deal thread to give him a positive feedback. Honestly, I really liked here because I felt like this place is like a home for bassists but I just feel like I have been cheated by someone I trusted...

My question is that... is his behavior accpetable in Talkbass? Here is a bass guitar forum, not the internet site for sale. I understand that everyone wants to make a profit by doing whatever but I would absolutely not attempt such a thing in here because here is not a place for making profit.

What do you think about what I am thinking... am I wrong? He's taken too much.... yes.. really.

Before I am going to give him a negative feedback, I want to know what others think and what others would do if they're in my situation.

[thefruitfarmer]

Well, you agreed the price and bought the goods.

You chose to accept the price and the seller has given you the bass. The contract is fulfilled.

Personally I would never buy a bass or a guitar without playing it first.

However.....

Are you happy with the bass?

Does it play well and sound good?

If it's a good bass for you then you've done okay. The fact that you've paid a bit more than you could have is not that relevant if you have an instrument you really like.

[bassrique]

Why did you pay what you did?

Was there a misrepresentation?

[thefruitfarmer]

I suggest you write this one off to experience.

[D.Don]

Apparently you felt the price was right for you and you bought it, and the dude you got it from may have made a bargain, though I can't see how that would be of your business..

If the bass does not deliver what your agreement included, there may be a reason for negative feedback, if not, why should you then?



D.Don

[T-Bird]

Hi.

First of all, my opinion is that all private transactions are between two parties, no need to drag the perhaps loooong line of previous owners to confuse the deal. I would be the same to try to predict what the person that buys the merchandise from You is going to get from eventually reselling the stuff that once belonged to you. IMHO pointless.

The main question to me would be: Is the item worth 1500+S/H for me?

If my (in this case Yours ) answer is Yes, that's enough for me. Is that enough for You, that's another thing entirely.

Sometimes I may ask myself: Would I've gotten the same exact item cheaper from someone else.
If the answer is yes then I might regret the purchase for a second or two.
On the other hand, if the answer was no (as it usually is), thats a no-brainer IMHO.

When I do my little buying and selling hobby, I don't give a fair dinkum what the previous owner has paid, no matter what the merchandise.

The power of an example is better than just a few words.
When I was a lot younger and didn't have any machining equipment yet, a local junk dealer told me that he had this ancient lathe for sale. The ad would come out on paper the next day, but I could buy it now for the same price ~250€. I went to look at the lathe, didn't notice the rotten shape of the plain bearings, but noticed the convenient size and the unfortunately missing shaft or two. After I paid the 250€ (real value was about twice that), he proudly told me that he had paid 50 cents for it in an auction. He was quite pissed off when I told him "so ****** what" it's well worth that to me. And it has. Still to this day 20 years later, he regrets selling it .

When doing bussines I feel that some assurance that the description of the stuff is accurate is always worth something. Doing bussines in here would be an assurance like that to me.

If the bass is to Your liking, give him the positive feedback. IMHO

Just my 0.02€
Sam

[boriology101]

Thank you for the thoughts. I think I learned something from this happening... Well, I think I have to admit that I am just too new to here or I am probably from too different culture...

Yes, I think the bass is absolutely worth the money but I really did not like the seller's intention to make profit because, to me, it is really weird for doing such a thing from someone in the same forum. May be my thought could be too asian way (I'm from an asian country by the way) ...

However, I really understand your points that I should give him a positive feedback as long as I agreed the deal with him no matter what. So.. yes, I feel like I should give him a positive feedback and I still need to learn more about things in here.

Thank you for the inputs!

[yodedude2]

<snip>
"I recently purchased a bass from a person here. I paid 1500 + shipping cost to him. And, I realized today that he's the second owner of the bass and he paid $1200 including shipping for the bass from the 1st owner. I found the sales ad of the first owner of the bass today because the seller erased his ad while I was trying to find the deal thread to give him a positive feedback. Honestly, I really liked here because I felt like this place is like a home for bassists but I just feel like I have been cheated by someone I trusted...<snip>

you're making assumptions. you may be right. then again, maybe the person who sold you the bass paid less than the stated ad price you discovered. maybe they only paid $1k total. would that make you feel more cheated?

maybe the bass was given as a gift to the person who sold it to you. maybe they didn't have any money at all in it. would that make your deal any worse?

i expect it's human nature not to want to feel cheated...i'm assuming you're feeling cheated because you believe if you had seen the first seller's ad, you could have bought the instrument you have now for less money.

yet you didn't see or act on that first ad, someone else did. that's a fact you can never change. all you can change is how you feel about it.

if you want to feel cheated because someone flipped a bass here, no one can stop you. i suggest that is extremely counter-productive. conversely, you can decide you paid what you felt the bass was worth and that price is immaterial to whatever cost your seller may have incurred in procuring and selling the bass you bought. i suggest that is productive.

you choose. hope this helps. later, ron

[JimB52]

I've made a small/medium profit on nearly every piece of gear I've sold, and have bought a few basses with the intent of selling them for a profit. I haven't sold anything I've owned for less than a year at a profit. I think buying gear here, talking up it's virtues on the forum, then selling it for a profit in GFS may not be cool or in the spirit of bass brotherhood, but certainly not illegal or deeply immoral.
I'd probably leave neutral feedback explaining the deal.
ps I also try to do a lot of price and satisfaction research before buying a bass I've never played.

[baba]

You have absolutely no basis to leave negative feedback. You bought for an advertised price, received the item as described, and it was a solid deal.

[JonathanD]

Is someone sells me an american P V 2008 for $15, I'm going to probably play it for a month and then sell it here for around $850-$950 depending.

I do not see a breach of ethics involved here. At some point the bass was worth $1500 for you, and that value should be based on what you believe its worth IMO.

Forget about this and cuddle with the bass some when you get a chance

[Relic]

I can see how that might bug you a bit, I would probably bother me a bit was well.
But you know, the reality is that you saw a nice bass, bought it for a price that you were willing to pay, and are happy with it. End of story. There's no need for negative feedback.
I don't think it's a cultural thing by the way.

[davetakis]

Originally Posted by baba

You have absolutely no basis to leave negative feedback. You bought for an advertised price, received the item as described, and it was a solid deal.

yep. dont see what the issue is. why is the seller not entitled to make a profit?

[*smb]

I bought a chocolate bar from a shop this morning and then found out that the shop made money on the deal! I feel cheated!

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by *smb

I bought a chocolate bar from a shop this morning and then found out that the shop made money on the deal! I feel cheated!

his point was that TB is not a store where people should sell for profit, you missed it

I don't see any issues here, it was not "cool" for a TB transaction but nowhere in the classifieds does it say you need to resell gear for the same amount of money or less. I am part Chinese, and the asian in me sees that somebody made a profit where the other party did not research his transaction I would say most of the gear on here get passed around a lot, (and I like it because I get to try a lot of gear I could never afford new) therefore a quick search of the same item in the classifieds would show all the past transactions.
Chalk this one off and go play the bass

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Originally Posted by joeyl

his point was that TB is not a store where people should sell for profit, you missed it

His point is ridiculous and has no basis in reality. There's nothing that says the classifieds aren't a place to make a profit. It's the Classifieds section- not the Charity section. Sellers SHOULD try to make a profit if they can. Nobody's forcing a buyer to pay more than he wants. The whole idea behind this thread is one of the lamest things I've seen in a long time.

[ehque]

Treat this as "i did not do my research" tax.

I lost money on my first bass, as i bought new. I am not planning on losing money on my second, and may make a profit as well, since i picked it up really cheaply.

Am i going to undercut myself simply because this is TB? I love my bass playing brothers, but money is money, you know.

I'm asian, if it helps the stereotype.

[alembicguy]

I have had one bad experience on this site doing a trade.We both agreed to the deal and decided to ship,my end of the deal arrived on time as promised but the other person dragged their feet and kept giving me excuse after excuse as to why they werent able to ship,finally I asked for my side to be returned to me which would cost more to ship back than to ship their trade to me and no problem they went and shipped their trade right away....so what was the problem?
Any ways long story short is I chose not to leave any feedback period as I know the way this person was acting that they would give me bad feedback just out of spite.
Sorry for hijacking the thread,carry on.

[Gard]

Two words: Caveat Emptor.

It's not the seller's fault that YOU didn't do your due diligence and research to see if you could find any information on the instrument before you committed to purchasing it.



Calling him out (even if it isn't by name, because just a bit of sleuthing on one of our parts will track down the individual in question) is lower in my book than his/her making a minor profit on selling an instrument.

I've bought and sold at profit many times in the past, and I don't see how anyone can complain about it. I've always sold at a more than fair price (is it my fault I got a good deal when I purchased?), and have never heard such nonsense.

If the bass makes you happy, it was worth every penny you paid, especially since you didn't either do the nosing around prior to purchase, nor does it appear that you haggled on the price in any way - which implies that you felt the deal was a fair and reasonable one, doesn't it?

If you leave this individual a negative feedback, YOU are the one with an ethical issue, not the seller.

[Mark Latimour]

Don't know whether its the case or not, but the value of guitars moves a lot with currency changes. Particularly if you are buying cross border. At the beginning of this year, £1 was buying $2.10, now it gets $1.50. That's a 25% fall in the value of the pound. THe bass that cost me $4000 (£2000) would have a current value of about £3000 now and its less than twelve months since purchase. The point being that if I sold my bass here in the UK, I could quite rightly ask upwards of £2500 or more because that is the current value of the bass. I know the Canadian dollar was up above $1 earlier this year. Maybe the prices paid reflect the difference in currency rates. Also, bass manufacturers price increases can influence sale values. Although the seller may have made a profit on his transaction, he may still have only got the current market rate. If you paid $1500 for a 70's jazz bass 5 years ago, is there any reason you wouldn't sell it now for $2500, their current market value?