Calling all IT specialists...!

kovachian · #1 12-11-2007, 03:43 PM

I need some advice on breaking into the IT field. I'm strongly considering getting an associate's in Computer Science in addition to some Microsoft certs but my dilemna is, should I dive right into something like computertraining.com, get some certifications and get into the field in 6 months, or should I get the degree first and THEN look into certs?

If I get the certifications, should I even bother with a degree? If I get the degree, should I look for an employer willing to pay for further training? The computertraining.com school I mentioned wants over $27K for their 24 week course. A whole semester at most 4 year colleges don't even cost that! Would this be worth it? Anyone know of other schools I can look at?

Help a brudda out, mang!

buzzbass · #2 12-11-2007, 03:47 PM

Don't do it. Pick something else. I've been in IT for 24 years and I'm getting out. It's a dead industry, all of us Americans have been outsourced to death.

kovachian · #3 12-11-2007, 04:25 PM

Wow, not great to hear. Unforunately for me, I haven't the slightest clue what else I'd be good at. I tried my hand at automotive service and failed miserably; considering the "hurry hurry hurry!!!" nature of it all, I simply cannot churn out fixed cars like White Castle burgers. I know the middle class is a dying breed, but I desperately need some kind of decently paying career to ride out before the blue collar collapse. It's either this or mowing lawns, and that's not going to pay down my debts in this lifetime or the next.

**embellisher** · #4 12-11-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzbass

Don't do it. Pick something else. I've been in IT for 24 years and I'm getting out. It's a dead industry, all of us Americans have been outsourced to death.

+1

It is in the process of happening to my company. We are currently training a staff of 'offshore' people who will take over 'legacy systems support' so that none of the employees will be 'left behind'

and can move on to supporting newer systems.

I will be surprised if there are any positions below management in the IT department of my company staffed by workers in this country in 5 years.

The same thing happened to my brother 5 years ago.

Do yourself a big favor. Pick another field.

MJ5150 · #5 12-12-2007, 12:52 AM

Oh, don't let these guys scare you. There are IT jobs to be had out there, and not everything is going to be outsourced. Some companies are reversing the outsourcing trend and going back in house. The company I work for just ended contracts with two of the huge IT outsourcing companies in India and China and moved the work back over here.

Get rolling on your IT degree and try to find an internship with someone huge like IBM. If that doesn't work, look for a smaller shop local to you that will expose you to all aspects of IT. Dabble in all phases of IT until something stands out to you, or until you find an IT skill in high demand in your area.

Don't worry about certs, unless you enjoy the quest for knowledge. Your employer will send you to school for them if he/she thinks you need it.

-Mike

el_Kabong · #6 12-12-2007, 04:08 AM

My tip is to specialize. There's always demand for good systems people ie sysprogs (showing my age there!), network specialists and database guru's. Fixing dead pc's, doing over the phone problem resolution, rolling out new pcs or writing application code to someone else's deadline is for the birds imo. The more technical the work the better because few people, including your manager, fully understand what you do or how you do it. The benefit of this is that essentially you get to say what needs doing, how it should be done and what a realistic time frame is. A much more satisfactory situation ime. Also your manager is to some degree forced to trust you. Being trusted is vastly superior to the alternative. So do what you need to to get into the more technical and specialised fields. Also some times there are great opportunities with old technologies. Most people want to do the new and sexy stuff but the logistics/cost/risk associated with replacing large scale old computing systems that still meet their requirements can be significant. In the right niche you can make a fine living. The best thing that ever happened to me financially was the outsourcing of the last site I worked at - the cutover process creates plenty of opportunities for the bold.

casualmadness · #7 12-12-2007, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_Kabong

My tip is to specialize. There's always demand for good systems people ie sysprogs (showing my age there!), network specialists and database guru's. Fixing dead pc's, doing over the phone problem resolution, rolling out new pcs or writing application code to someone else's deadline is for the birds imo. The more technical the work the better because few people, including your manager, fully understand what you do or how you do it. The benefit of this is that essentially you get to say what needs doing, how it should be done and what a realistic time frame is. A much more satisfactory situation ime. Also your manager is to some degree forced to trust you. Being trusted is vastly superior to the alternative. So do what you need to to get into the more technical and specialised fields. Also some times there are great opportunities with old technologies. Most people want to do the new and sexy stuff but the logistics/cost/risk associated with replacing large scale old computing systems that still meet their requirements can be significant. In the right niche you can make a fine living. The best thing that ever happened to me financially was the outsourcing of the last site I worked at - the cutover process creates plenty of opportunities for the bold.

Good advice here. I'm currently working on a master's degree in cybersecurity. My original plan was to try and get into one of the alphabet agencies and do crypto work; although my plans seem to be changing. But with a crypto/security background, there is plenty of work to be had. If you are really good, you can start your own pen. test company. (penetration test). Big companies hire pen. testers to test their security. You get a "get out of jail free" card and your job is to try and break into the mainframe of the company. A really good pen tester will also try to use social engineering to get past the guard/receptionist/etc. If you can get on with a pen tester; or if you're good enough to start your own team, you will have a great time because essentially you're getting paid to break into a company. And if you get caught, you have a "get out of jail for free" card. Pen testers get full reign typically.

kovachian · #8 12-12-2007, 08:59 PM

I heard about that "penetration test" work (as filthy as it sounds). I've also heard it referred to as "ethical hacking" as well. That certainly sounds interesting but it's too early for me to make up my mind at this point. All I do know now is two things; I want an associate's at a minimum AND I don't want to do helpdesk support. ALTHOUGH, I'll do it if I have to but I'll definitely be looking for avenues out of that sector.

I guess now it just boils down to which school to go with. I was going to do an online course but the more I think about it, the better off I think I'd be if I had an instructor rigth there with me. Plus I like some social interaction anyways. I appreciate the advice guys, thank you all!

**Josh Ryan** · #9 12-12-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Oh, don't let these guys scare you. There are IT jobs to be had out there, and not everything is going to be outsourced. Some companies are reversing the outsourcing trend and going back in house. The company I work for just ended contracts with two of the huge IT outsourcing companies in India and China and moved the work back over here.

Get rolling on your IT degree and try to find an internship with someone huge like IBM. If that doesn't work, look for a smaller shop local to you that will expose you to all aspects of IT. Dabble in all phases of IT until something stands out to you, or until you find an IT skill in high demand in your area.

Don't worry about certs, unless you enjoy the quest for knowledge. Your employer will send you to school for them if he/she thinks you need it.

-Mike

^ what he said. I am an IT/photography and photoshop dept all by myself in a most unlikely company. you just have to find the right spot. \

I do think there are less of the old school BOFH style jobs around than before, but there is still plenty of work.