Are Cameras the New Guns?

[warwick.hoy]

http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns

I really have no opinion here. On the surface it seems that citizens are being denied a tool to protect themselves from police abuses.

Of course there is the side of me that says the best way to protect ourselves from police abuse is to not break the law.

I'm inclined to agree that there seems to be some sort of coercion into behaving with no way of holding law enforcement accountable when they eff up.

There are smacks of fascism in these laws.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

It's disturbing. I wouldn't be surprised to see the issue come before the Supreme Court in the next few years.

[LiquidMidnight]

That's rather interesting. With regard to the wire-tapping and recording laws cited against surveillance of police officers, I could be wrong, but it has been my understanding that consent to be recorded only pertains to audio recordings, not visual recordings. Therefore, it is legal to make a movie recording of a person without consent so as long as their voice isn't recorded.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns

I really have no opinion here. On the surface it seems that citizens are being denied a tool to protect themselves from police abuses.

Of course there is the side of me that says the best way to protect ourselves from police abuse is to not break the law.

I'm inclined to agree that there seems to be some sort of coercion into behaving with no way of holding law enforcement accountable when they eff up.

There are smacks of fascism in these laws.

I usually tend to stray away from comments like that, but in this case I think you're right. I think that while citizens may not legally have the right to document their law enforcement officers, they should be able to.

On the other hand I can kind of understand why the laws are in place, which I don't think is to protect dirty cops, but rather to ensure that the police don't have to contend with second thinking their every decision because they know it's going to be on tape and could be used by an overzealous attorney to prove they're unstable and should have their badge taken away, or sent to jail because they shot an unarmed man who suddenly reached into his jacket after resisting arrest and was acting belligerently. When your life is on the line you often don't have the luxury of instant replay.

[Chebass88]

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

[Stanley Design]

Everyone should be free to videotape public servants in the line of duty as long as it does not impede them from doing their job.

[warwick.hoy]

I agree with you Slo,....the protection of abusive or dirty cops may be inadvertent. I should mention that I truly believe that most cops are good cops. Any police officer I've dealt with has been very professional and in a lot of cases very cordial (people like to call in noise complaints on bands around here). I don't intend to bash the police by posting this article.

The article states however that you would probably only face any kind of legal retaliation if you film a police officer in a compromising or embarrassing situation. No one is going to cite you or throw you in jail for filming a police officer "kissing babies or rescuing a dog". If you aren't going to throw people in jail in these instances then I don't think someone should spend "4 to 15 years in jail" for recording a police officer that may be out of line.

[DudeistMonk]

This is highly disturbing.

Police are people, people who have sided with authority in order to gain power. I don't trust anyone with power, blue uniform or otherwise. When the rules of the system change to grant these people even more power, that's just scary...How long until we need to fear the police more than the criminals? At least a criminal is motivated by profit (excluding sex offenders and crimes of passion) and has little to no interest in my affairs.

This does indeed reek of fascism.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

This does indeed reek of fascism.

Indeed.

So, basically, its illegal to shoot pics/video of public servants doing illegal things? What a load of crap, now who's going to keep them in check?

[seventhson]

They use their surveillance powers against me and deride my concerns with "if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about."

why is it different when it's them?

Such utter hipocracy.

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

Indeed.

So, basically, its illegal to shoot pics/video of public servants doing illegal things? What a load of crap, now who's going to keep them in check?

When you consider that video evidence is pretty much the strongest evidence of police abuse you can gather it basically states:

"It is illegal to gather or possess evidence that could lead to the conviction of a police officer"

I also love how the government sees cameras (in conjunction with the internet and other new technology) as the problem and not the police officers who are shooting un-armed people on the subway in CA or checking dudes off bicycles in NYC.

Also did anyone catch the part about the guy who was prosecuted for filming an officer dressed like a civy, driving an un-marked car? How does that work?

...It's okay though, let them pass these unconstitutional laws, we are over-due for a revolution anyway, might be fun.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

When you consider that video evidence is pretty much the strongest evidence of police abuse you can gather it basically states:

"It is illegal to gather or possess evidence that could lead to the conviction of a police officer"

I also love how the government sees cameras (in conjunction with the internet and other new technology) as the problem and not the police officers who are shooting un-armed people on the subway in CA or checking dudes off bicycles in NYC.

Also did anyone catch the part about the guy who was prosecuted for filming an officer dressed like a civy, driving an un-marked car? How does that work?

...It's okay though, let them pass these unconstitutional laws, we are over-due for a revolution anyway, might be fun.

Unfortunately theyve pumped too many of us full of pharmaceuticals to prevent any actual revolting. A few will stand up, a few will be hot down and the game will carry on.

[sloasdaylight]

Dude revolutions suck, just ask the hundreds of thousands who died in the Civil War.

[sleepytime]

We are inching ever closer to being a police state. You might as well get used to it.

[JimB52]

Have the states in question outlawed surveillence cameras?
They indiscriminately record millions of people a day without their consent.
Surely some of those individuals are law enforcement officers.

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

Unfortunately theyve pumped too many of us full of pharmaceuticals to prevent any actual revolting. A few will stand up, a few will be hot down and the game will carry on.

I think the TV alone does a good job of turning us into vegetables, filling my mind with suggestions, subtly influencing my perceptions of reality. That and 40 hour work weeks/contending with ridiculous bureaucratic insanity at all times... If they manage to censor the internet all hope is lost.

Originally Posted by sloasdaylight

Dude revolutions suck, just ask the hundreds of thousands who died in the Civil War.

I was being sarcastic...mostly. Sometimes I kinda feel like it wouldn't be so bad to go out guns blazing for the good of humanity and true freedom and change. Every freedom we have has been earned by the proletariat in blood, sweat and tears. The rich and powerful will squeeze everything out of the working man that they can, the police are their tools and they are sharpening them.

Also the civil war wasn't a citizens revolt the way the revolutionary war was or the French Revolution was. It was one faction of government and financial power against another faction of government and financial power. Our history books like to portray it as a war for black freedom, when in reality it was a war of profit and power, the Northern establishment had no interest in freeing the slaves initially and did so out of necessity. Those Southerners with power sent citizens to die so they could hold onto their wealth in what was becoming an industrialized/international society that made them obsolete.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by JimB52

Have the states in question outlawed surveillence cameras?
They indiscriminately record millions of people a day without their consent.
Surely some of those individuals are law enforcement officers.

True. The article said Illinois was the state that was most aggressive in prosecuting citizens who recorded police officers. Yet Chicago and other Illinois cities have thousands of surveillance cameras taking video in public places at all times.

America is a great place with a lot of freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution. Freedoms which are often ignored and too few people complain about the loss until it affects them personally.

[Floyd Eye]

It is fascism. I can't see this standing up to constitutional scrutiny at the SCOTUS.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by sloasdaylight

On the other hand I can kind of understand why the laws are in place, which I don't think is to protect dirty cops, but rather to ensure that the police don't have to contend with second thinking their every decision because they know it's going to be on tape and could be used by an overzealous attorney to prove they're unstable and should have their badge taken away, or sent to jail because they shot an unarmed man who suddenly reached into his jacket after resisting arrest and was acting belligerently. When your life is on the line you often don't have the luxury of instant replay.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

I, for one, am down with personal accountability, be it public servants or private citizens.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

I, for one, am down with personal accountability, be it public servants or private citizens.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely for personal responsibility and accountability, and I don't like these laws one bit either. There is however a difference between accountability and monday morning quarterbacking.