Child support

[Indiana Mike]

How many of you pay this?

I have no problem supporting my kids and always pay on time or early.

My problem is ... It appears to be written by people that have a guaranteed life long salary job with zero chance of layoff , pay reduction or a cut in hours worked.

When you are married and you miss work , or lose a job your income goes down for the entire family.

They don't come and jail you because you can't provide the same level of lifestyle..

don't pay your support for any reason and they eventually will.

Child support should be a percentage based program . It would be closer to the reality married couples deal with .
EG , I pay 10% of my gross to the ex, I make $1000.00 a week , that equals $100.00 paid . The next week I work overtime and make $2000.00 , she gets $200.00 paid. the following week I get rained out a few days and only make $500.00 , she gets $50.00.

I fail to see the difference between married couples and the above program I suggest.

If you try to argue this with lawmakers and divorce counselors the first thing they say is " but it's for the children" and " so the children don't have to suffer a reduction in lifestyle as it is stressful". That is designed to shut you down and derail your argument. I call BS. You take two peoples salaries that don't change , now divide it between two households , every body suffers a financial loss. I think the biggest reason it stays the way it is ... they want me to provide as much as possible even if I have to live in a box so they don't have to worry about providing public assistance for the ex and my kids.


My pay fluctuates as much as +- 40% but it generally does equal out . I did have a few years , '07 &'08 , that I made $10,000 less than previous years . During that time we did less and sacrificed.

I sound bitter . I am not . I just do it and have adjusted to it. I think it's time for a realistic overhaul.

[Ryan L.]

I do, on one child.

I have found the child support system to be a VERY flawed system at best, at least in my state. If you are the father/obligitor, you are automatically in the wrong, no matter what. The make it VERY simple for the mother to try and go for more support, but VERY expensive and time consuming for the father to try and get it lowered when income has gone down.

I have ZERO problems helping to pay for my daughter's upbringing and needs. But I agree, reforms in the system are definitely needed.

[cassanova]

My cousin and his wife got divorced. He lives here in Florida and has to pay Illinois cost of living child support wages. He had to pay $666 at first and his wife keeps going back to the courts and now has the courts raping him for close to $900 a month in support now. (I think its $850ish.) Not very cool IMO for her to do or the courts to be so eager to tap into his wallet like that, because he made much more up in Illinois than he is hear, primarily do to the cost of living down here. It's a lot cheaper than Illinois so we make less than people up in Chicago.

I agree with the OP as they make it so expensive to avoid using government funds to assist the mother and children.

[Jimmy Bones]

My father owes my mother roughly $43k in arrears.

He gets out of paying buy gettign a job, then quitting just as he hits the mark where he'd have to start paying, then going to the local community college, then getting a job, rinse, repeat.

He's been jailed three or four times, but never convicted of evading a court order. Always been minor stays of a week or so for contempt.

[Indiana Mike]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Bones

My father owes my mother roughly $43k in arrears.

He gets out of paying buy gettign a job, then quitting just as he hits the mark where he'd have to start paying, then going to the local community college, then getting a job, rinse, repeat.

He's been jailed three or four times, but never convicted of evading a court order. Always been minor stays of a week or so for contempt.

Some peole can handle jail

I can't , wont say I couldn't , just really don't want to go.

I want to support my kids.

But my ex can pay for her partying ways by doing what I did , Get an education and bust her ass.

[Papazita]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Bones

My father owes my mother roughly $43k in arrears.

He gets out of paying buy gettign a job, then quitting just as he hits the mark where he'd have to start paying, then going to the local community college, then getting a job, rinse, repeat.

He's been jailed three or four times, but never convicted of evading a court order. Always been minor stays of a week or so for contempt.

No offense meant to you personally, I know this is your dad we're talking about, but guys like this are a big reason why the system is f'ed up for the rest of us.

My ex had one child from a previous marriage. The father wouldn't pay and wouldn't pay, etc. They'd suspend his driver's license and he still wouldn't pay. He would let it go just to the point where the next step was jail, and then he would get a job, work 2 or 3 weeks -just long enough to make ONE payment and reset the whole process. Then he'd quit the job and start all over again.

Her and I have a child, also. I have no problem whatsoever with paying child support. The issues I have are with the way my state's support laws are written, my local CS agency (bunch of man hating harpies)(excuse me, I mean "womyn." ), and that there is no oversight as to how my child support money is spent.

Under my state's laws, anything that is of any value, like property, vehicles, bank accounts, stock, 401k, etc, or of any potential value, driver's license, business license, professional (i.e. medical or teachers) license, etc, is on the chopping block if you fail to pay.
Fair enough. If you don't pay, they take your money or means of earning it.
What I don't agree with, though, is that they don't have to wait untill you are in arrears. If your case worker decides that you might fail to pay, any form of collections process can be started, or monthly payments increased. In cases where they take extra "just in case" you don't pay, this money isn't paid to the other person. It sits in the agency's bank accounts, awaiting that "just in case" situation.

About 2 1/2 years ago, I was laid off, which led to an immediate doubling of my monthly support obligation and an unannounced emptying of my checking account, which led to bounced rent, electric, gas, and trash checks, and an eviction. It made no difference to them that these actions had a huge negative impact on my child, of whom I have every other week. (Oh, and I just love that I pay a full month of support even though I have her for half of every month!)
I spent the next 9 months unemployed. Because of the length of time I had worked at my employer, I did not qualify for unemployment. Consequently, I fell behind in my payments. Now, was any of the money they had taken from my bank account paid to my ex? No.
At tax time, I was about $900 behind; so they grabbed up $2200 of my federal refund, and all $110 of my state. The $900 I was behind on was paid to my ex; the remaining $1400? They refused to tell me. 3 months later when those stimulus checks went out, they took all $600.

Once I started working again, I went in and asked for a complete transaction history for the account. I wanted to know every penny they got from me, every penny they paid to my ex, and how much they were still holding on to.
I did the math and they were holding onto just under $2500 in overpayments. I pointed out that I was caught up in my support and was no longer behind; that I was working and paying, in full and on time; that I had overpaid by $2500; and that I was continuing to overpay as my monthly payment was still at the doubled amount. I told them that I wanted my monthly payment reduced to the original court-ordered amount, and that I wanted the overpayments refunded to me, as they are required to do according to the support agreement.
The case worker rolled her eyes, muttered something about me being "another scumbag deadbeat who cares more about money than his child" and how people like me "should be prevented from having kids they want nothing to do with;" and told me in a very nasty tone that if I wanted that money back, I needed to get a lawyer and just try and get it back.

I didn't get a lawyer.

I sent a letter containing the case history, transaction history, and a recording of that last conversation with my case worker (damn right I recorded it!) to my Congressman.

I finally got a response last month that my monthly payment was being lowered to its original amount. No word yet on a refund of my overpayments (which would be used to spoil my kid rotten ), but I'm not holding my breath.

[Papazita]

I think there needs to be some oversight on how child support money is being spent. My daughter will be 5 next month; her mother still tries stuffing her into size 18 & 24-month pants, and hand-me-down shirts from her 8-year old sister, because she can't be bothered with spending my hard-earned child support payments on things like "clothes," or "shoes..."

Nooo...my child support pays her internet bill, World of Warcraft subscription, cigarettes, alcohol, cd's, dvd's; and x-box games for her boyfriend.

[fenderfunker]

My ex-wife said she would get the taxman onto me, 'cos she reckons I earnt more than I declared. I paid her the whole amount I would owe her, until both my daughters were 18, in one go...$43,000.00. It got her off my back, but she now tells the kids that I never contribute, which they believe, and resent me for. She still asks for more money, but I can choose to say no, If I don't want to. No easy fix..Dads always lose.

[disenchant]

I am VERY lucky my husband doesn't have to pay any to his baby mama. Which is fine since we have her 80% of the time and pay for everything as it is. But he could have gotten royally screwed because he's the male. Luckily neither pays support to the other.

[Indiana Mike]

I am the op BTW,

I went thru a divorce starting this time last year. I ran a got an atty as I knew this was the final straw. It's a long story involving eighteen years of trying to keep an unhappy marriage together.

I paid my atty to draw up an agreement that she said a judge would never approve , guess what , the judge stamped it approved no questions asked...
Split the custody,
I have (had) primary custody of my eighteen YO daughter.
I have primary custody of my 10 YO son.
She has primary custody of my 7 YO daughter
We both have joint and legal custody of all three.
I also kept my pensions and the house but I wont get into details but , people freak when they find out what I managed to keep.

I would have paid $400+ a week! and lost pension money and a house

Instead I have a manageable payment and assets that allow me to retain some of the daily financial decisions pertaining to my children.

Also I get to claim head of household on my taxes ,which in 10 years , is worth a bunch. Otherwise I would claim single which equals >bend over<. I have my kids 2/3 of the time so yes , I qualify

When she sobered up she was pissed. To late . She will never be able to afford to appeal and would never win .

I learned from my first divorce ( from her , yes , I is STUPID) and watching other male friends... strike early and hard , with kindness even if it's fake, go for the big stuff... You wait and your screwed. Divorce isn't for wimps , your trying to save yourself form being destitute

[PasdaBeer]

I hate to say, being from a split parent family, and being the money tree for my mother growing up, it really has left a nasty taste in my mouth for having kids.

Now, theres some other baggage on top of that, but the way the system is set up, along with the fact that over 50% of families are single parents, REALLY kills the idea of wanting a kid. I havent had a hard lifestyle compared to a lot, but I dont want my child raised like I was.

[fenderfunker]

I was weak, I was soft, I was screwed. $750,000 later, Move on...dust yourself off..and start all over again. Funny thing is, the money doesn't even make her happy.

[Bocete]

I had no idea the child support concept was that flawed. Is this related to the US only?

[PasdaBeer]

concept is great, execution is horrible.

[cheezewiz]

I paid for 18 years on my oldest daughter. Three weeks after I got done paying for her, my wife left me and I started paying all over again on my other two children, even though I have 50 percent custody of them. When I'm done, I'll have paid child support 28 straight years. Don't even get me started on how screwed up the system is. I have half custody. I provide just as much food, shelter, clothing, etc. for the kids as the ex does. In fact, I provide more, but because I've kept the same job for 24 years, I pay HER and her boyfriend.

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by Indiana Mike

Some peole can handle jail

I can't , wont say I couldn't , just really don't want to go...

Yeah. I wouldn't call a week in jail minor, by any means. An hour is beyond minor for me. Then again, I've never BEEN there!

I agree with Ryan that the entire system is an absolute train wreck. Being the nature of my work, I heave dealt with custody, and in-turn child support far more often than I have cared to.

[nella]

Indiana Mike has a good point where he says: "My problem is ... It appears to be written by people that have a guaranteed life long salary job with zero chance of layoff , pay reduction or a cut in hours worked."

Some history... In the last 20-30 years one of the big things to impact how child support works has been the federal government. To make a long story short, the feds put great financial pressure on the states to adopt child support guidelines.

These child support guidelines, are, in large part, based on a utilitarian view and not the needs, accustomed standard of living, etc. of the family they are applied to in a particular case. In other words, they don't and quite frankly, can't do an adequate job of dealing with Indiana Mike's concerns.

Prior to the widespread adoption of guidelines most states allowed judges to decide child support on a case-by-case basis. As you might can guess, if every child support case these days had to be heard based only on evidence from the family at issue, the courts would be more clogged than they already are.

I'd also point out that where judges have wide discretion that discretion can cut both ways and the results can vary greatly. In other words, a judge could enter a higher number than what presumptive guidelines might have indicated.

Based on all that, these guidelines are in some sense the lesser of two evils both from a policy point of view and a case-by-case point of view.

One thing going for people is that if circumstances do change, like a loss in job, I don't know of any state that would prevent someone form asking for a modification of their support.

To Papazita's point about about supervision of how the child support is spent, in 15 years of dealing with these kinds of cases I have only seen a NC judge order accounting once, and that was when I presented proof that the mom was withdrawing lots of cash from the ATM and tested positive for some illegal drugs. Beyond that, every time I've made that argument and ask for an accounting the judge says something like the money goes into a pool of funds that is used for rent, utilities, groceries and you can't easily account for a child's portion.

[NS2A]

If you get divorced and pay support you give up half of your salary. But if you stay married you give it all up.

You guys seemed suprised a program run by federal and state governments is unfair, inefficient and flawed.

[Papazita]

Originally Posted by cheezewiz

I paid for 18 years on my oldest daughter. Three weeks after I got done paying for her, my wife left me and I started paying all over again on my other two children, even though I have 50 percent custody of them. When I'm done, I'll have paid child support 28 straight years. Don't even get me started on how screwed up the system is. I have half custody. I provide just as much food, shelter, clothing, etc. for the kids as the ex does. In fact, I provide more, but because I've kept the same job for 24 years, I pay HER and her boyfriend.

Dontcha just love Ohio sometimes?

[Papazita]

Originally Posted by nella

...Beyond that, every time I've made that argument and ask for an accounting the judge says something like the money goes into a pool of funds that is used for rent, utilities, groceries and you can't easily account for a child's portion.

"Pool of funds?"
Let's look at her "pool" she's always bragging about...
: $1000 a month in food stamps (5 people in the household @ $200 per person)
: $1000 a month in cash welfare (same deal as the food stamps)
: $450 monthly rent paid by public housing
: varying monthly utility bills paid by public housing
: $2000 a month in SSI for their disabled youngest child
: $1200 a month in SSI/disability payments for the boyfriend. He "hurt his back" and can't work. It's just a coincidence that he can't hold a job due to his temper and due to lying to his employer about not having a criminal record. He does it every time, knowing full well that his probation officer will eventually contact his employer, and he'll be fired for lying on his application.
: $475 in child support from the father of her first child; support that, according to her, he is finally paying evey month.
: $200 a month in child support from me.
: undetermined amount of monthly medical bills paid by Medicaid. With the disabled son, medical bills likely run into the thousands just about every month.

Add up the cash and dollar values of paid assistance, not including medical and utility bill payments, and they're bringing in about $76,000 a year; for sitting on their butts doing nothing.

The "pool of funds" to pay things like rent, utilities, and food is covered entirely by the government. My child support money is their "play" money. Even with all this, every bit of cash they get is blown on frivolous junk like cd's, dvd's, video games, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. They still live in a dumpy, dirty apartment, and drive a car that was donated to them. They can't save anything; no college fund for the kids; not even new clothes that fit for the kids. And why should they buy her new clothes? That's what I'm for! She even hit me up for $40 this week to pay for our daughter's school pictures ("hit up" as in "reminded me that I am required per the joint custody agreement to pay for it"). Will I be getting one of these pictures? No.

I know I shouldn't concern myself with what other people have, but damn it if it doesn't burn me up to see that!