Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Off Topic [BG]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Off Topic [BG] Non-music-related discussion and chat


Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:38 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Coma Misdiagnosis: Man trapped in his body for 23 years

Sign in to disble this ad
EDIT: This case is subject to debate. What follows is an article accounting the story from the Guardian. After that is an article by James Randi in opposition to this case. Discuss.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kinda scary...but it's good to know that this will bring forward more and better testing in cases of coma.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-coma-23-years

Quote:
For 23 years Rom Houben was *imprisoned in his own body. He saw his doctors and nurses as they visited him during their daily rounds; he listened to the conversations of his carers; he heard his mother deliver the news to him that his father had died. But he could do nothing. He was unable to communicate with his doctors or family. He could not move his head or weep, he could only listen.

Doctors presumed he was in a vegetative state following a near-fatal car crash in 1983. They believed he could feel nothing and hear nothing. For 23 years.

Then a neurologist, Steven Laureys, who decided to take a radical look at the state of diagnosed coma patients, released him from his torture. Using a state-of-the-art scanning system, Laureys found to his amazement that his brain was functioning almost normally.

"I had dreamed myself away," said Houben, now 46, whose real "state" was discovered three years ago, according to a report in the German magazine Der Spiegel this week.

Laureys, a neurologist at the *University of Liege in Belgium, published a study in BMC Neurology earlier this year saying Houben could be one of many cases of falsely diagnosed comas around the world. He discovered that although Houben was completely paralysed, he was also completely conscious — it was just that he was unable to communicate the fact.

Houben now communicates with one finger and a special touchscreen on his wheelchair – he has developed some movement with the help of intense physiotherapy over the last three years.

He realised when he came round after his accident, which had caused his heart to stop and his brain to be starved of oxygen for several minutes, that his body was paralysed. Although he could hear every word his doctors spoke, he could not communicate with them.

"I screamed, but there was nothing to hear," he said, via his keyboard.

The Belgian former engineering student, who speaks four languages, said he coped with being effectively trapped in his own body by meditating. He told doctors he had "travelled with my thoughts into the past, or into another existence altogether". Sometimes, he said, "I was only my consciousness and nothing else".

The moment it was discovered he was not in a vegetative state, said Houben, was like being born again. "I'll never forget the day that they discovered me," he said. "It was my second birth".

Experts say Laureys' findings are likely to reopen the debate over when the decision should be made to terminate the lives of those in comas who appear to be unconscious but may have almost fully-functioning brains.

Belgian doctors used an internationally-accepted scale to monitor Houben's state over the years. Known as the Glasgow Coma Scale, it requires assessment of the eyes, verbal and motor responses. But they failed to assess him correctly and missed signs that his brain was still functioning.

Last night his mother, Fina, said in an interview with Belgian RTBF that they had taken him to the US five times for reexamination. The breakthrough came when it became clear that Houben could indicate yes and no with his foot.
"Powerlessness. Utter powerlessness. At first I was angry, then I learned to live with it," he tapped out on to the screen during an interview with the Belgian network last night, AP reported.

Laureys, who is head of the Coma Science Group and department of neurology at Liege University hospital, has advised on several prominent coma cases, such as the American Terri Schiavo, whose life support was withdrawn in 2005 after 15 years in a coma.

Laureys concluded that coma patients are misdiagnosed "on a disturbingly regular basis". He examined 44 patients believed to be in a vegetative state, and found that 18 of them responded to communication.

"Once someone is labelled as being without consciousness, it is very hard to get rid of that," he told Der Spiegel.

He said patients suspected of being in a non-reversible coma should be "tested 10 times" and that comas, like sleep, have different stages and need to be monitored.

Houben hopes to write a book detailing his trauma and his "rebirth".
EDIT: James Randi link on this provided by Threshar This Cruel Farce Has To Stop!
__________________
Schroeder Club #99

Last edited by SnoMan : 11-26-2009 at 08:52 AM. Reason: This case is subject to debate
  #2  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:32 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Facinating, and not just a little scary.
__________________
edit signature
  #3  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:57 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belgium
This was a news story here in august. Through the slow gears of the medical world it now has caught the attention of the international media.

It was here on the news again today.


The man is very happy that now he is not treated as a coma patient anymore. He has an optimistic view on his present situation and the future.
They are working on his recovery.

He can not speak and can barely move.
He needs some aid when typing on the keyboard.

I hope he can recover and enjoy life again.


He coped with it those 23 years very well mentally. Mostly he dreamt and fantasized a lot. Not hallucinating. He kept his mind working and kept his sanity.
Which is something amazing I think. Many people would have gone crazy with this kind of isolation.

He did state the it was some sort of torture and frustrating that nobody knows he was consience.
  #4  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:02 PM
MakiSupaStar's Avatar
The Lowdown Diggler
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Supporting Member
Amazing. I'm glad to see that he didn't witness anyone abusing him.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perry View Post
Oh, and I'm clearly retarded.


Down and Dirty | hi life in low fi

http://soundcloud.com/downanddirty/king-midas
  #5  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wilmington, NC
I'd be pretty interested in reading that book whenever he writes it, got to wonder what kind of thoughts a man has when he's done literally nothing but meditate for 20+ years.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munjibunga View Post
I have found that, in the long run, TalkBass is the very best place to get legal advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve21 View Post
i'm planning on giving somebody HIV soon
  #6  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
The song "one" by Metallica comes to mind
__________________
Gun control is like fighting drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to buy cars.
  #7  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:15 PM
RWP RWP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar View Post
Amazing. I'm glad to see that he didn't witness anyone abusing him.



Wasn't there a Twilight Zone about this?
  #8  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:21 PM
Steve's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Supporting Member
That guy was concious and alert with a flat EEG???

Or is a thorough, periodic EEG not part of the normal standard of care in Belgium?

Bizarre.
  #9  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Norway
I'm thinking One by Metallica. If this happened to me, I'd rather be dead.


Why of course, this has allready been said I gotta learn to do mroe than skim through topics
  #10  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:43 PM
Febs's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Supporting Member
He seems to be completely unreceptive.
The tests I gave him showed no sense at all.
His eyes react to light; the dials detect it.
He hears but cannot answer to your call.
See me, feel me, touch me, heal me.
See me, feel me, touch me, heal me.
There is no chance, no untried operation.
All hope lies with him and none with me.
Imagine though the shock from isolation,
When he suddenly can hear and speak and see.
See me, feel me, touch me, heal me.
See me, feel me, touch me, heal me.
  #11  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:56 PM
smperry's Avatar
Moderator

Endorsing Artist: Martin Keith Guitars
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Supporting Member
That is scary!
  #12  
Old 11-24-2009, 03:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA / Missoula, MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
That guy was concious and alert with a flat EEG???

Or is a thorough, periodic EEG not part of the normal standard of care in Belgium?

Bizarre.
People in a coma have a pulse you know.
__________________
I wont die for your cause, but I will live for it.
  #13  
Old 11-24-2009, 04:36 PM
Steve's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan118 View Post
People in a coma have a pulse you know.
*sigh*
As a matter of fact, I do know. Do you?
Possibly you are confusing EEG which is a standard test for brain function with EKG (or more correctly, ECG) ElectroCardioGram which is a test of the cardiac function.
  #14  
Old 11-24-2009, 04:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armueller2001 View Post
The song "one" by Metallica comes to mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtreO View Post
I'm thinking One by Metallica. If this happened to me, I'd rather be dead.


Why of course, this has allready been said I gotta learn to do mroe than skim through topics
totally
__________________
Someone here said these wise words, they are now my sig. "Sometimes people suck.."
  #15  
Old 11-24-2009, 04:50 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Calabash, NC
This is more than a little scary. This man has extraordinary mental capabilities if he was able to keep calm and not go mentally insane during all of that. Can you imagine being trapped in your own body, being completely conscious but not being able to speak or move or even open your eyes? It freaks me the hell out when I have a spell of sleep paralysis, and that only lasts for a minute or two. Not trying to equate sleep paralysis with a coma, a coma being a much more severe medical condition, but the sensation of sleep paralysis is a very overwhelming feeling, at least for me it is, and the thought of being trapped in that kind of physical and mental state of panic for TWENTY THREE YEARS, and to be able to stay sane throughout the whole thing seems freaggin' superhuman to me. Seriously.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar View Post
Let's genetically build Jar Jar Binks so we can hunt him down in the Florida swamps and kill him. Repeatedly.
  #16  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Aylesford NS Canada
Send a message via MSN to Murder_Worship
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
__________________
www.myspace.com/thebludgeonedmetal
  #17  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:26 PM
hbarcat's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rochelle, Illinois
GOLD Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
That guy was concious and alert with a flat EEG???

Or is a thorough, periodic EEG not part of the normal standard of care in Belgium?

Bizarre.

According to the story, he was diagnosed as being in a "vegetative state". They used standard testing for the Glasgow Coma Scale to determine this. Patients who are diagnosed as being in a vegetative state or persistent vegetative state always read activity on an EEG. If they didn't, then they would be labeled as "brain dead".
__________________
Purple is a fruit.- H. Simpson
  #18  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:49 PM
L-A's Avatar
L-A L-A is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Eh?
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbarcat View Post
According to the story, he was diagnosed as being in a "vegetative state". They used standard testing for the Glasgow Coma Scale to determine this. Patients who are diagnosed as being in a vegetative state or persistent vegetative state always read activity on an EEG. If they didn't, then they would be labeled as "brain dead".
^ I was about to correct that too. Basically, you covered it. Diagnosing someone of a conscious total paralysis instead of coma requires very precise knowledge of what you're looking for.

This doctor's initiative is definitely a big step for medicine.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom once dead View Post
Also to prove my Australianism, I've been stung by an irukandji jellyfish before, while snorkelling at an island looking at stingrays.
  #19  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:52 PM
Steve's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Supporting Member
They used the GCS to diagnose a persistent vegetative state????

You have got to be kidding me.

It's not a question if there is electrical activity present on an EEG so much as where in the brain the activity is and how much activity there is.

A person "Trapped inside their own body" is going to have a vastly different EEG than someone in a coma. In either case the GCS will be 3. That is why it is a totally inappropriate measure.

When I was a paramedic, if I had taken someone into the ER and said, "He's has a GCS of 4, he's in a vegitative state" or, "He's in a coma", several people would have ripped me a new one.

Ah...there it is. I missed it the first time.
"Belgian doctors used an internationally-accepted scale to monitor Houben's state over the years. Known as the Glasgow Coma Scale, it requires assessment of the eyes, verbal and motor responses. But they failed to assess him correctly and missed signs that his brain was still functioning."

I guess so. Duh!

Last edited by Steve : 11-24-2009 at 06:14 PM.
  #20  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Palm Bay, Florida
Worst fear evar.

I can't even imagine the psychological processes that he must have went through dealing with being conscious in that state and not being able to vent emotions.
__________________
MTD|Zon|Epifani|
MTD USA club member #17
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Follow TalkBass on Twitter   Visit TalkBass on Facebook  

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:32 AM.




Copyright 2011 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar? Visit our new sister site TalkGuitar.com [beta]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.