Comma Usage Question

rarisgod · #1 10-06-2009, 04:58 PM

I'm editing an essay for someone and I'm curious about this...say you have 2 stories as references...when referencing one of the stories, you use quotation marks.

Say the story is called "Celebration"
See? Like that. But say you were to say

In Johnson's story, "Celebration", the...

Would the comma go inside the quotation marks or outside? I'm thinking outside...

Stickk · #2 10-06-2009, 05:05 PM

Outside of the quotation marks. The comma is not in the title of the movie.

rarisgod · #3 10-06-2009, 05:36 PM

There's the logic I had figured out last year haha thanks very much!

Pilgrim · #4 10-06-2009, 07:01 PM

There are numerous websites that review any fine point of grammar or punctuation if you care to look for them.

I did a search for "commas in quotations" and quickly found this rule at http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/gramm...quotation.htm:
"In the United States, periods and commas go inside quotation marks regardless of logic."

The Online Writing Lab (OWL) at Purdue (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/577/01/) agrees, although it adds this comment: "In all the examples above, note how the period or comma punctuation always comes before the final quotation mark. It is important to also realize that when you are using MLA or some other form of documentation, this punctuation rule may change." The OWL is very authoritative but predominantly uses APA style. I cannot say I'm familiar with MLA style, as the four institutions where I've taught all use APA style.

My conclusion - and the same advice I give my graduate students: commas go INSIDE the quotation marks!

And always check more than one authoritative source online; don't depend on advice you get in a bass forum. It only takes seconds to check.

katibass · #5 10-06-2009, 07:36 PM

it's a rule i sometimes tend to ignore, but commas go inside the quotations.

tplyons · #6 10-06-2009, 07:47 PM

In the US, punctuation generally falls within the quotation. In other countries, it is typical for punctuation to fall outside the quotation marks.

cassanova · #7 10-06-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

There are numerous websites that review any fine point of grammar or punctuation if you care to look for them.

I did a search for "commas in quotations" and quickly found this rule at http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/gramm...quotation.htm:
"In the United States, periods and commas go inside quotation marks regardless of logic."

The Online Writing Lab (OWL) at Purdue (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/577/01/) agrees, although it adds this comment: "In all the examples above, note how the period or comma punctuation always comes before the final quotation mark. It is important to also realize that when you are using MLA or some other form of documentation, this punctuation rule may change." The OWL is very authoritative but predominantly uses APA style. I cannot say I'm familiar with MLA style, as the four institutions where I've taught all use APA style.

My conclusion - and the same advice I give my graduate students: commas go INSIDE the quotation marks!

And always check more than one authoritative source online; don't depend on advice you get in a bass forum. It only takes seconds to check.

My college English professor always told us commas go inside the quotation marks as well.

About the MLA style. I think the only time a comma or period goes after something is the parenthesis if you're citing a reference. My field requires APA but, I did have to learn MLA too and think thats the only time you put the period, comma, etc, after something. As always, I could be wrong.

BlacksHole · #8 10-07-2009, 08:44 AM

I used to always put the punctuation outside and logically this is where I believe it should go. But the others are correct, In the US, the current rule is inside the quotation marks.

rarisgod · #9 10-16-2009, 08:55 AM

To me, it makes so much more sense to put the commas outside the quotation marks. If you're using the quotation marks to indicate a story name or something, that story name is something on its own. Why would you need a comma within? The comma is not part of the story name. Also, it looks ridiculous to have quotation marks after a comma IMO.

Plus I was referring to the rules in Canada, so I'm not sure what that means elsewhere.

bass12 · #10 10-16-2009, 09:25 AM

I'll have to check some references, because placing the comma within the quotation marks really doesn't look right to me. Strange. I never understood why there couldn't exist a little more consistency within academe regarding formating and style.

DeluxeRed · #11 10-16-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass12

... I never understood why there couldn't exist a little more consistency within academe regarding formating and style.

Then what would they have to jabber about all day?

JTE · #12 10-16-2009, 09:46 AM

Note there's a distinction to be made between quotes and titles. All of the discussions from Online Writing Lab (the other link in Pilgrim's post didn't work for me) refer to using quotation marks to designate actual quotes. They say NOTHING about usage regarding setting off titles. That's a different can of worms, I would think.

Me, I'll continue to put the commas outside the quotes for a string of titles, but inside when using quotations.

John

warnergt · #13 10-17-2009, 01:33 PM

I agree that commas and periods go inside the quotation marks.
I also agree that it often doesn't look right. Consequently, I often
rewrite the sentence to eliminate the problematic comma.

emor · #14 10-17-2009, 02:34 PM

Kate L. Turabian, A Manual for Writers of Term Papers, Theses, and other Dissertations

3:107:

In American usage, with quotation marks, a final comma or period always goes inside (i.e. before the closing quotation mark), whether it is part of the quoted matter or not. Question marks and exclamation points go inside if they are part of the quoted matter, outside if they pertain to the entire sentence of which the quotation is a part. Semicolons and colons go outside the quotation marks, as part of the sentence containing the quotation. (If the quoted passage ends with a semicolon or a colon in the original, the mark would normally be changed to a period or a comma to accord with the structure of the main sentence.)

6:31:

Underline the title of a whole published work, that is, the title of a book and the title of a periodical. Enclose in quotation marks the title of an article in a periodical. Place a comma after the title of a book unless it is followed immediately by parenthesis enclosing the facts of publication, in which case the comma is placed after the final parenthesis.

4:16:

In all fields, except some of the sciences, some titles of written works, published or unpublished, and some other kind of names and titles are underlined (to indicate a title would be italicized in printing); others are enclosed in double quotation marks, and still others are capitalized but neither underlined nor enclosed in quotation marks. The general rule is to underline the titles of whole published works and to put the titles of parts of these works in quotation marks. Titles of series and manuscript collections, and various kinds of descriptive titles, are neither underlined nor in quotation marks.

My copy is the 1973 edition, long before word processors and the ability to italicize, so it's quite possibly different now. (Insert old guy smiley.)

**bassybill** · #15 10-17-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rarisgod

I'm editing an essay for someone and I'm curious about this...say you have 2 stories as references...when referencing one of the stories, you use quotation marks.

Say the story is called "Celebration"
See? Like that. But say you were to say

In Johnson's story, "Celebration", the...

Would the comma go inside the quotation marks or outside? I'm thinking outside...

I don't care what USA usage says, the only correct place for that comma is after the quotation marks, for all the logical reasons stated in this thread.

L-A · #16 10-17-2009, 04:27 PM

I'd like to point out that this is not a quote. It's a title. Common usage is to format it in italic...

Edit: JTE beat me to it. But I mention italic, so there.

UncleFluffy · #17 10-17-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassybill

I don't care what USA usage says, the only correct place for that comma is after the quotation marks, for all the logical reasons stated in this thread.

I'm a Brit, working at a US company. Sometimes people half-jokingly mention issues like this after reading something I've written. My standard reply is: " 'English' is an adjective, not a noun."