Is convincing a young child that Santa Claus exists considered "child abuse"?

[kesslari]

We need to treat Santa better than we do.
Let's throw a party for Santa Claus - (courtesy of Big Bad Voodoo Daddy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsMoK7Rr1iY

[Relic]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

I think the story you posted does illustrate one way that the notion of Santa can be harmful. I also believe that its something a parent can circumvent if handled properly. If a parent knows that they will not be able to get their child presents, or the presents they want, it might be a good idea to downplay the "naughty or nice" aspect of the Santa story, so that the child does not associate the lack of presents, or presents that they want, with the idea that they must be a "naughty" child.

Sometimes you make too much sense.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by Relic

Sometimes you make too much sense.

They say the same about you, no? It must be the name...

[Relic]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

They say the same about you, no? It must be the name...

Gotta be

[LiquidMidnight]

And you're the two guys that I almost always agree with on here.

But I have a different name. Hmm...

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

And you're the two guys that I almost always agree with on here.

But I have a different name. Hmm...

The keys player in my band is named Paul. He paid me $5 to agree with him.

[Ricnroll]

It wasn't the lies that were the problem it was the blackmail...."You'd better be good or Santa won't bring you any presents"

And what about "he sees you when you're sleeping"... that's pretty creepy.

But seriously everything got a lot more fun when I got on the naughty list

Speeking of fun I thought these were funny:
http://www.hulu.com/#!watch/47611 (hopefully that's the right link, I can't see it in Canada)

[MuinXing]

It's not abuse but their is a solid argument that it is poor parenting.

American society suffers from the narcissism curse where everyone believes there gonna get what they want or even that they should.

If you think I'm being overly emotional when I say this be assured I mean this from a very objective perspective.

People idealize this sense of joy and excitement as being some great thing for children.

But it's likely it may give kids an unhealthy sense of entitlement. And creates an environment where unrealistic things happen. Again remember the sensitivity of a young child.


If you think I'm being overly stern, a killjoy, or anticossumerist again I cannot stress enough how this is not the case.

You really need to think long and hard why the whole santa claus myth is so attractive to really understand why it may be bad for us.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Not "political correctness." Truth.

And kids have perfectly good imaginations. They can come up with all of the magical stuff and wonder that they require. I just don't exactly agree with parents proactively and deliberately misleading their kids.

Truth is overrated when it comes to childhood. Christmas is a lot more fun with Santa in the mix.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by MuinXing

But it's likely it may give kids an unhealthy sense of entitlement. And creates an environment where unrealistic things happen. Again remember the sensitivity of a young child.

Hence the idea of a "naughty and nice" list. And unrealistic things? That's half the fun of childhood - living in a state of partial disconnect from "the real world". They'll get plenty of reality later in life - why ruin it earlier than necessary?

[Kirkowitz]

All this Santa talk reminds me of this... if it offends anyone, please let me know and I will remove it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PefF34ltNaM

They also made a full length film.... worth seeing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQaE3HjXvEk

[MuinXing]

Originally Posted by bass12

Hence the idea of a "naughty and nice" list. And unrealistic things? That's half the fun of childhood - living in a state of partial disconnect from "the real world". They'll get plenty of reality later in life - why ruin it earlier than necessary?

Because your not ruining anything, kids don't need to live in the land of magic created by their parents, the reality is kids are often more optimistic, and better able to deal with certain aspects of real life than adults are.

A great deal of this supposed vulnerability of kids is instilled by the parent.

This notion that children need their fantasies enhanced is part of the problem. Children have an ability to come up with things on their own these enhancements skew a childs natural ability for independence.

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by MuinXing

Because your not ruining anything, kids don't need to live in the land of magic created by their parents, the reality is kids are often more optimistic, and better able to deal with certain aspects of real life than adults are.

A great deal of this supposed vulnerability of kids is instilled by the parent.

This notion that children need their fantasies enhanced is part of the problem. Children have an ability to come up with things on their own these enhancements skew a childs natural ability for independence.

Just out of interest....you got kids?

[ShredderMaximus]

I admit to not reading the thread, but how many kids really believe in Santa? I don't remember a time where I ever did, and around holiday time the none existence of Ol' Saint Nick is already all over the place. I just think its a big charade between parents and kids. Parents play it up from tradition, and kids go along with it as to not jeopardize receiving a jolly bounty from their parents. Then again, maybe that was just me...

[Tony Flow MMMM]

Originally Posted by ShredderMaximus

I admit to not reading the thread, but how many kids really believe in Santa? I don't remember a time where I ever did, and around holiday time the none existence of Ol' Saint Nick is already all over the place. I just think its a big charade between parents and kids. Parents play it up from tradition, and kids go along with it as to not jeopardize receiving a jolly bounty from their parents. Then again, maybe that was just me...

It was just you

[Relic]

Originally Posted by MuinXing

It's not abuse but their is a solid argument that it is poor parenting.

American society suffers from the narcissism curse where everyone believes there gonna get what they want or even that they should.

If you think I'm being overly emotional when I say this be assured I mean this from a very objective perspective.

People idealize this sense of joy and excitement as being some great thing for children.

But it's likely it may give kids an unhealthy sense of entitlement. And creates an environment where unrealistic things happen. Again remember the sensitivity of a young child.


If you think I'm being overly stern, a killjoy, or anticossumerist again I cannot stress enough how this is not the case.

You really need to think long and hard why the whole santa claus myth is so attractive to really understand why it may be bad for us.

I see your point but I think that you're looking at it from an odd perspective.
If we were to talk about a sense of "entitlement" in kids overall these days, I'd definitely agree. Kids tend to be more spoiled now - yeah. And if the kid's already spoiled rotten, then the Santa thing's just going to play more into it.
But I would rather say that that's more a product of the other 364 days of the year rather than just one. In addition to that, though we're bombarded by images and representations of Santa, it's ultimately the parents who set the tune as to what/who Santa is in their household.
In my household, it's ALWAYS been more so about the "magic" and "wonder" of Christmas, the giving, receiving and appreciating and so on. If it's allowed to be simply degraded into a commercial "gimme gimme gimme" thing then I think you're assessment is dead on, but it's our job as parents to make sure that doesn't happen..

[DwaynieAD]

Originally Posted by MuinXing

Because your not ruining anything, kids don't need to live in the land of magic created by their parents, the reality is kids are often more optimistic, and better able to deal with certain aspects of real life than adults are.

A great deal of this supposed vulnerability of kids is instilled by the parent.

This notion that children need their fantasies enhanced is part of the problem. Children have an ability to come up with things on their own these enhancements skew a childs natural ability for independence.

so santa is the cause of greed. got it.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by MuinXing

Because your not ruining anything, kids don't need to live in the land of magic created by their parents, the reality is kids are often more optimistic, and better able to deal with certain aspects of real life than adults are.

A great deal of this supposed vulnerability of kids is instilled by the parent.

This notion that children need their fantasies enhanced is part of the problem. Children have an ability to come up with things on their own these enhancements skew a childs natural ability for independence.

Ahh..saw this much after I had responded to your first post.
I took a few minutes to consider this. To an extent I agree with you - but not everything. I agree that kids are often more optimistic and better able to deal with certain aspects of life.
Well, yes. But that's in part because kids have an inherent naivety about them. That's not a put-down, it's just simply because they have not yet really developed mentally and emotionally to fully understand the "big picture" yet. What may appear to be a child's better ability to deal with a situation, may be more related to the fact that they can't fully comprehend it yet, so look at it in a much simplified, basic view.

You're saying that by creating fantasies and such we're not allowing our children to be "free-thinkers" and "problem-solvers"(?), I would counter that by saying that we as parents have a duty to make sure that they can look beyond the mundane. They can do it themselves, or we can help. It's all in the balance of things. Too much fantasy is bad, too little is sad. All my kids believe(d) in Santa and now I have the oldest studying Physics in college, the middle an honors HS student and the youngest doing just fine in grammar school. A child's happiness in growing up is just as important as a child's education - a nice balance of the two is tantamount. Nothing wrong with Santa

[bass12]

Relic - not only does he have one of the coolest avatars, he also sounds like a cool parent!

[bass12]

Originally Posted by MuinXing

Because your not ruining anything, kids don't need to live in the land of magic created by their parents, the reality is kids are often more optimistic, and better able to deal with certain aspects of real life than adults are.

Need has nothing to do with it - it's just a nice thing. And you're right about kids often being optimistic. I've worked a lot with "disadvantaged" kids and their optimism and resilience can be astonishing. And you know what? It's wonderful to be able to help give these kids something to be optimistic about! It's easy to consider Christmas with only the spoiled kid in mind, but I'll tell you - it would break your heart to see how much genuine joy is brought into these kids' otherwise pretty dismal lives by Christmas. And is isn't just the gifts, it's the wonder and excitement of the fantasy. To kill that for those kids? THAT to me would be child abuse.