decent bass on car audio?

[Matthijs]

Why is it so hard to get a decent reproduction of bass in my car? All I ever seem to get is a loud and muddy rumble that's mostly bassdrum. Fine if you're an entry level drug dealer, but I want to be able to hear Mingus while driving on the highway. Somehow I think adding subwoofers and all the stuff you can buy in the carshop isn't going to help.

At the moment I own a citroen c5, to us europeans a fairly big estate car, it has 4 17 cm speakers and separate tweeters under the windshield and a run-of-the mill sony radio. That's not a high-end audiophile set-up, but it's not meager too. I'd think it should be able to do the job. Í don't want to spend a lot of money, just ending up with more of the same (and graduating to middle management in the drug trade)
So i've started fiddling: modded the x-over and dampened the tweeters by at least 9 db. The result is better, what still remains is the under 50hz resonance of the car. Adding bass on the radio only seems to amplify those frequencies, while what's lacking is the 80 to 160 range. Idea's anyone?

[MJ5150]

The gear from the car audio store works, you just need to match up amps to cabs and enclosures properly. Just like you do when buying gear for your bass guitar.

I have no knowledge of the car you speak of, but I am not aware of any factory car audio system that will pump out what you are desiring to hear. You'll need to spend a good amount of money to get that tone you are looking for.

So for those 17cm speakers, how are they mounted and where? Is it in a sealed enclosure? vented enclosure? mounted to the door?

-Mike

[iamlowsound]

You don't need subs and you don't need to spend a ton of money either. First, buy a good head unit (cd player), I recommend anything alpine. The buy some really good speakers for the front, alpine or hertz. Don't bother buying speakers for the back, you don't sit there. Take that extra
money and buy even better ones for the front. This will greatly improve your sound quality and shouldn't set you back too much.*

lowsound

[HaPpYfAcE]

my previous car had an acoustic feedback system that was supposed to help with reproducing bass w/o being too muddy. the rear speakers were the main part of that system. personally, i'd upgrade the rears for bass and leave the fronts for low-mids/mids/highs. just because you don't sit in the back doesn't mean you don't hear what's coming from the back. i think if you can get away with some larger woofers (not subs), then you should do that.

you could also look into those bass tubes that have an amp and speaker in an enclosure that most folks put in the trunk. i can't recall the name of them at the moment, but it might add enough bass w/o being overpowering and you wouldn't have to upgrade the speakers in the car. i've heard good things about the infinity basslink, as well.

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by HaPpYfAcE

my previous car had an acoustic feedback system that was supposed to help with reproducing bass w/o being too muddy. the rear speakers were the main part of that system. personally, i'd upgrade the rears for bass and leave the fronts for low-mids/mids/highs. just because you don't sit in the back doesn't mean you don't hear what's coming from the back. i think if you can get away with some larger woofers (not subs), then you should do that.

you could also look into those bass tubes that have an amp and speaker in an enclosure that most folks put in the trunk. i can't recall the name of them at the moment, but it might add enough bass w/o being overpowering and you wouldn't have to upgrade the speakers in the car. i've heard good things about the infinity basslink, as well.

IME, it is worth spending more money on the front speakers and leaving the back alone. You can even unplug the rears if you want to. If you afford it, get good speakers all around before buying subs. Hertz makes some amazing speakers that have a really good bass response.

lowsound

[HaPpYfAcE]

yep, it's been a while since i was into car audio. maybe things have changed. i'd probably still just upgrade everything vs one set or something.

[Matthijs]

So you all think it's worth it to invest in some better speakers. The thing is I've never really heard a car stereo that was any good in terms of a linear response in the lower frequencies. There always seems to be to much bass in the wrong places.

[Bassman316]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

I recommend anything alpine.

Alpine makes some decent stuff. I had an Alpine stereo system installed in my old car, and even on the factory speakers that system put out some bass.

[HaPpYfAcE]

most of the time, folks with subwoofers in the car are trying to overpower the bass frequencies. you rarely find someone with a good balance of sound in a car, imo.

it's very easy to get too much bass in a car, as well. a better stereo (with graphic eq or something similar) would probably help a lot for true frequency tuning.

[MJ5150]

No speakers in the back? Interesting concept.

-Mike

[KeithBMI]

One of those little bass bazookas might be what you're looking for. I'm a muddy bass guy, so I can't really help.

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

No speakers in the back? Interesting concept.

-Mike

If you are sitting in the front, you don't really hear the back speakers. If you are working on a budget of $400 for speakers, you are much better off buying two $200 speakers than four $100 speakers. It will sound a lot better. You couldn't compete in a sound quality contest, because the test from the front and back, but it will still sound great from the front and decent from the back. A new HU will make the biggest difference.

lowsound

[MJ5150]

Right, but bass is not exactly the frequency you want blasting in your face. So I say stick it behind you to compliment the sound stage. We all know around here what happens when a guy tries to cut corners on his bass guitar rig, and it is the same with car audio.

I am not familiar with any reasonably priced HU out there that will generate the kind of clear and tight bass being requested. I've seen those results come from an amp/sub install. It doesn't have to be two or four pounding 15's with a couple 2000 watt amps either. A sealed 10" positioned properly and adequately powered will do all a guy needs in a situation like this.

-Mike

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Right, but bass is not exactly the frequency you want blasting in your face. So I say stick it behind you to compliment the sound stage. We all know around here what happens when a guy tries to cut corners on his bass guitar rig, and it is the same with car audio.

I am not familiar with any reasonably priced HU out there that will generate the kind of clear and tight bass being requested. I've seen those results come from an amp/sub install. It doesn't have to be two or four pounding 15's with a couple 2000 watt amps either. A sealed 10" positioned properly and adequately powered will do all a guy needs in a situation like this.

-Mike

Agreed.

[Mazatleco17]

I got an alpine head unit, 6 1/2 225w infinity kappa speakers, and a 10inch JL audio sub, sounds pretty good on my single cab truck.

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by Mazatleco17

I got an alpine head unit, 6 1/2 225w infinity kappa speakers, and a 10inch JL audio sub, sounds pretty good on my single cab truck.

I've always been a big fan of JL Audio subs. Combine them with a Polk, Boston, or Infinity component system and you're off to a great start.

Also, I would strongly recommend NOT skimping on rears. step into any car you'd like and fade the signal 100% to the fronts and see how hollow it sounds. Fronts are too small, with no room for an enclosure to reproduce any low mids.

[Matthijs]

I always wondered if 4 speakers putting out bass in a car might cause all kinds of phasing effects like combing. I guess a sub, or only using the front or back for bass might deal with that.

I don't feel I need a lot of extra power, what I want is true hifi. It's plenty loud, and I'm not exceeding any power limits. It's loud enough for a fat R&B bass, the problem is the more subtle stuff like a jazz db. I want to be able to hear a DB solo while I'm doing 120 km\h, ánd I want it to sound like a DB.

Better EQing capabilities might work, but I'd prefer to fight it at the root. Do you think any of the speakerbrands you mentioned will get me any closer to that? I've been looking, but all the marketing gobble of any of those brands screams to me: very loud bass for people who want the street to vibrate. None of those brands seem to want to relate they're any good for Mozart. The guys that put tests on the net don't seem to listen to a lot of Mozart either. (Me too, but you get the point).

[pedroims]

I have a honda accord and an odessy with the regular audio system and the sound its pretty good ( a six-disc in-dash CD changer, a 180-watt amplifier, and four twin-neodymium speakers with polypropylene cone woofers and soft dome tweeters). I can hear bass perfectly, most of the time the issue is the noise coming from outside that makes everything sound muddy, maybe that is your problem.How is the isolation in your car?

[Matthijs]

It's a pretty silent car, I used to drive a volvo 940 and the citroen is more quiet.

I think I'll try upgrading the speakers with an A-brand and see what happens. If all I'll get is more below 50hz boom I can maybe try filtering that out with a highpass filter.

[Musiclogic]

Quality of crossover will be your biggest concern along with equalization. Road noise resonates between 210Hz and 360Hz, this is a big factor in mobile bass definition. You need to look at the speakers resonant frequency(Qts) to determine how this speaker will function at the range you desire. Also understand that the speakers mounted under the glass will resonate the lower frequencies(120Hz and lower) through the structure of the vehicle, thus making it muddier and more prevolent to your ear. You want to attenuate the frequencies lower so they resonate less and attenuate the low mids to be more defined making the bass more audible. Also remember the shell effect that a Citroen has with the angled rear(if they still look like I remember), This produces a projection effect of the frequencies most audible for the scoop angle, and you will need to listen and adjust for these also. Good speakers with 12db or greater crossovers(6.5"/17cm seperates) will serve you well to start, then get a good equalization unit(HU or seperate eq) that will allow you more broad tuning of your soundfield, and finally look to add a small sub to enhance the low end and define 30Hz to 220Hz. This should help you to design a more efficient soundstage in your car. Also google "Citroen audio system", some great articles online for successful sound quality systems.