DHS/ICE crackdown on counterfeit goods (and music sharing?)

[hbarcat]

U.S. Immigration and Customs Inforcement: ICE seizes 82 website domains involved in selling counterfeit goods as part of Cyber Monday crackdown

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/101...washington.htm

The nationwide operation was spearheaded by the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center (IPR Center) led by ICE's Office of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), in coordination with the Criminal Division's Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section and nine U.S. Attorneys' Offices including the Southern District of New York; District of Columbia; Middle District of Florida; District of Colorado; Southern District of Texas; Central District of California; Northern District of Ohio; District of New Jersey; and the Western District of Washington. The Criminal Division's Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section also provided significant assistance.



TorrentFreak: U.S. Government Seizes BitTorrent Search Engine Domain and More
http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-governme...d-more-101126/

TorrentFreak: US Government Responds To Domain Seizures, Ignores The Big Question
http://torrentfreak.com/us-governmen...estion-101129/

Those who took a careful look at the list of seized domains will have noticed that there are some odd entries. Among the replica watches and fake sport shirts are three sites that were directly or indirectly linking to music. That’s not counterfeiting, although releasing music before it hits the stores is a criminal act so these targets can be explained.

But there’s an even stranger entry, and that is Torrent-Finder.

Torrent-Finder is not a typical torrent site where one can download torrent files. It’s merely a meta-search engine that redirects users to other sites. The site simply displays a search box and has no browsable archive. The site is not encouraging or even facilitating copyright infringement any more than other search engines such as Google.

So the question that we’d like to see answered is what the grounds were to seize Torrent-Finder? Could it have been a mistake? Or perhaps a test?




Whuuuuuu . . . . . . . . .






No politics.

[McHaven]

Domain seizures on a quasi-legal basis make me really nervous about the state of the first amendment.

[MJ5150]

Maybe it was seized since they were directing traffic? Seems like they are contributing to the piracy by showing people how to find it. Like how a pimp can be arrested for directing traffic to his employees?

-Mike

[UnsungZeros]

This wouldn't bother me nearly as much if it were just the Department of Justice involved. I don't see why DHS should be involved.

[hbarcat]

The reason I posted this is simply to make people aware that this took place in case anyone wanted to see how this develops. At this point we really have no good answers to why DHS is involved but more importantly, why a handful of the targets seem to be uninvolved with illegal activity. Were they accidentally included? Were they targeted because the Feds are trying to expand their power? Or were they legitimately targeted for illegal activity despite appearances?

[MakiSupaStar]

This would never happen in China. Oh wait....

[DwaynieAD]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Maybe it was seized since they were directing traffic? Seems like they are contributing to the piracy by showing people how to find it. Like how a pimp can be arrested for directing traffic to his employees?

-Mike

by that logic google is just as culpable

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Maybe it was seized since they were directing traffic? Seems like they are contributing to the piracy by showing people how to find it. Like how a pimp can be arrested for directing traffic to his employees?

-Mike

What about every other search engine?

Not really surprising though, the US Government does seem to be getting a bit mental in regards to things it disagrees with on the internet right now.

[P. Aaron]

Funny/Sad: Lady Gaga's work is protected better than the writings at our own State Department.

[Jonyak]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Maybe it was seized since they were directing traffic? Seems like they are contributing to the piracy by showing people how to find it. Like how a pimp can be arrested for directing traffic to his employees?

-Mike

type in a band name, and the word torrent after it. works just as well.

[TOOL460002]

interpol has been taking down torrent sites for a while, though those might have been the type with their own servers, not just directors of traffic. however, this will be about as effective as the war on drugs. government whack-a-mole... theres no way another site will pop up... no way.

[beggar98]

DHS is involved because of hierarchy- the IPR Center has no arrest authority, so they partner with ICE which is under DHS.

As far as Torrent-Finder goes, they weren't running that site out of the kindness of their hearts. If the take-down stands up in court, I'm willing to bet there was a paper trail showing some money changing hands.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by beggar98

DHS is involved because of hierarchy- the IPR Center has no arrest authority, so they partner with ICE which is under DHS.

As far as Torrent-Finder goes, they weren't running that site out of the kindness of their hearts. If the take-down stands up in court, I'm willing to bet there was a paper trail showing some money changing hands.

Money from adverts, we better stop websites that do that too

[beggar98]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Money from adverts, we better stop websites that do that too

From my point of view, aiding in crime is a crime. That said, I think something like Torrent-Finder should fall under freedom of speech unless they were directly profiting off of the crimes they aided in. Now, whether or not "directly profiting" includes receiving advertising revenue from the criminals you aid will be something for the courts to decide.

[TOOL460002]

Originally Posted by beggar98

From my point of view, aiding in crime is a crime.

i dont think its just your point of view. knowingly aiding in a criminal act is a crime, as far as i know. there may be some gray areas, and im sure intellectual property running into freedom of speech adds to the murkiness. however, as has been said, if even a dime changed hands, someones going down.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by beggar98

From my point of view, aiding in crime is a crime. That said, I think something like Torrent-Finder should fall under freedom of speech unless they were directly profiting off of the crimes they aided in. Now, whether or not "directly profiting" includes receiving advertising revenue from the criminals you aid will be something for the courts to decide.

Many torrent sites use ads provided by google, just as TB does, google can also be used just as easily to find torrents.

Does google aid crime?

Just because it doesn't have 'Torrent' in its name, is it ok?

Very gray area!

So many current news stories that are currently opposing the apparent freedoms found in the US.

[UnsungZeros]

Originally Posted by beggar98

DHS is involved because of hierarchy- the IPR Center has no arrest authority, so they partner with ICE which is under DHS.

Still, it would seem that intellectual property enforcement would be the domain of DoJ, not DHS.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Many torrent sites use ads provided by google, just as TB does, google can also be used just as easily to find torrents.

Does google aid crime?

Just because it doesn't have 'Torrent' in its name, is it ok?

Very gray area!

I believe the Feds are trying to actively claim some of that gray area before the courts decide for them.

The courts have already decided this in more traditional areas such as (to throw out a random example) a car company. It would be pretty tough to prosecute Ford Motor Company for aiding criminal activity even if you could get the company executives to admit in court that they can reasonably expect that criminals will use cars to commit crimes like bank robberies and drive by shootings. This is true because Ford has a legitimate market in selling cars to law abiding citizens for legal purposes.

The supporters of torrent and file sharing web-sites as well as search engines are using this same idea. Legitimate file sharers are using these sites to exchange ideas and information that is in the public domain or is with the permission of the owners of the information. They would also argue that even though they expect some users will use the sites for the illegal sharing of music files, they don't condone such use and also (and more importantly) have no feasible way of stopping it.

It's also possible the Feds are simply ignorant about how these sites work.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by UnsungZeros

Still, it would seem that intellectual property enforcement would be the domain of DoJ, not DHS.

+1

Immigration/homeland security. Why are these guys involved at all?

Perhaps everyone at the DoJ is busy with more important stuff while ICE and DHS are bored and this is just something to do.

[beggar98]

Originally Posted by hbarcat

+1

Immigration/homeland security. Why are these guys involved at all?

Perhaps everyone at the DoJ is busy with more important stuff while ICE and DHS are bored and this is just something to do.

Are any of the sites based overseas? If so, DoJ has no authority.