Different perspectives on history

**bassybill** · #1 08-19-2009, 02:46 PM

This is something that often makes European visitors to the US think, and vice versa, I expect.

When I was in NYC earlier this month, one of the guys made a jokey reference to that whole 1776 business. I just told him we all blamed the French.

Anyway, it got me thinking about the fact that the house I lived in from when I was 18 months to 13 years old was built in... 1675.

I personally don't think that this difference in perspective has any major implications, by the way. I see it as a curiosity of historical/geographical migration as much as anything else.

Any other TB friends (from either side of the pond) got any thoughts on this contrast?

Mark Latimour · #2 08-19-2009, 02:48 PM

I guess its sort of like how an old pub in the US or Australia was built in the 1800's, that qualifies it as a new pub in the UK.

i_got_a_mohawk · #3 08-19-2009, 02:54 PM

So it's sort of like comparing Maki's experiences to those of Username N/A?

playinpearls · #4 08-19-2009, 02:55 PM

yeah, i was in England a couple of years ago....it was definetly crazy walking into this old church that was built in 1200...

There was just this sense of amazement thinking about the fact that this building is older than my country...

i can't wait to go back! such an awesome place...

MoD_Scotty · #5 08-19-2009, 03:18 PM

In Georgia, you're lucky to see something built in the 1800s. I went to Israel last year, and walked down streets that were over 2000yrs old. It definitely changed my perspective a little.

Jared Lash · #6 08-19-2009, 03:42 PM

It does make for a difference in perspective, potentially a very large one depending on the person.

Even just simple things like city planning. For nearly half of its existence as a nation (and less so for a great many states) the car has been ubiquitous which has dramatically shaped how cities are built which stands in marked contrast to Europe.

And it isn't just that it's a new country, it's also that it's geographically isolated. And when you add that to all the little nuances of it being a new country (and quickly becoming a world power at that) it just creates a very different mentality in a lot of ways.

Happynoj · #7 08-19-2009, 04:15 PM

It is odd if you think about it. The Cathedral where I live was built in around 1200AD, but there has been a Cathedral on the site (just not in the present form) since around 700AD.

It is also the only 3-spired medieval English cathedral.

()smoke() · #8 08-19-2009, 04:22 PM

i'm interested, but not sure that i get what you're asking specifically? is it simply whether living in an older house/neighborhood/town gives someone a different perspective on life in general?

i'm of the thought that everyone, everywhere, has a different perspective, framed by every single experience we've ever had--so i'd agree that living in an older house would lend a different perspective than living in a new one...

this being said, i also agree that one isn't any better or worse than the other--there have been many people live on the earth that were entirely nomadic, building zero permanent structures...i hold these people in equal, sometimes higher, regard than i would anyone responsible for historical architecture

Happynoj · #9 08-19-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

i'm interested, but not sure that i get what you're asking specifically? is it simply whether living in an older house/neighborhood/town gives someone a different perspective on life in general?

I think it's more to do with the fact that America didn't exist until recently when compared with Europe - for Americans, 1776 is a long time ago - it is near the start of your history. In Europe, we have buildings that are older than your country.

()smoke() · #10 08-19-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happynoj

I think it's more to do with the fact that America didn't exist until recently when compared with Europe - for Americans, 1776 is a long time ago - it is near the start of your history. In Europe, we have buildings that are older than your country.

agreed, partially,but i'm still not understanding the idea (and i'm not trying to be flippant or argumentative

)

1776 is just as long ago to me as to you, right?

Happynoj · #11 08-19-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

agreed, partially,but i'm still not understanding the idea (and i'm not trying to be flippant or argumentative

)

1776 is just as long ago to me as to you, right?

In years, yes, 1776 is the same length of time ago. However, when you look at it in perspective with your country, 1776 seems much further back to you - that was the beginning of the USA. Bassybill used to live in a house that was built 100 years before your country existed, and where I live there is a building that was built almost 600 years before your country existed. You don't even have any history from then. You see?

Kipaste · #12 08-19-2009, 04:54 PM

I get what you're saying but I don't get where you're going with it. Yes, US is a quite new country and has been built quite differently than old European cities ( or at least those old European cities that weren't bombed to hell in WWII.) I'm not trying to pick up a fight either, I just don't see the point.

After seeing this topic I though this would be about how history is written in differend countries. As an example: one thing that has gotten quite a lot of discussion in Europe is the new russian commission for historical truth which is pretty much a group of people set up to make sure no one writes about history in a way that isn't seen as the (official?) truth in Russia. As you might guess, many Baltic countries occupied by former USSR might have a different take on that truth. But this line of conversation would lead to politics so I'll drop it now.

Jim Campbell · #13 08-19-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

agreed, partially,but i'm still not understanding the idea (and i'm not trying to be flippant or argumentative

)

1776 is just as long ago to me as to you, right?

in years yes,but when the place you live has stuff built by hadrian its a different perspective.......i used to go to a bar in new york city that was built around the same time as the first french explorers came here to trade furs with the indians

kserg · #14 08-19-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happynoj

I think it's more to do with the fact that America didn't exist until recently when compared with Europe - for Americans, 1776 is a long time ago - it is near the start of your history. In Europe, we have buildings that are older than your country.

Uh, well, just because America did not exist, does not mean that there was no civilization here long before the pale faces came into the picture. I think reason we have this perspective regarding what 'old' in the "New World" is because we historically thought less of the culture/civilization in America before us and did not preserve it. Very unfortunate.

()smoke() · #15 08-19-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happynoj

You don't even have any history from then. You see?

I see your perspective. Ironically, I just have a much different perspective on this concept of how geography or formal western society determines and influences history I'd call my own...again, not a slight towards anyone or his/her beliefs--I find the topic is interesting and it can lead to some challenging questions.

popinfresh · #16 08-19-2009, 06:14 PM

I'm more interested in the way history is taught and the different perspectives that you learn in different parts of the world, and thought that's what this thread would be about.

Carry on.

popinfresh · #17 08-19-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happynoj

I think it's more to do with the fact that America didn't exist until recently when compared with Europe - for Americans, 1776 is a long time ago - it is near the start of your history. In Europe, we have buildings that are older than your country.

Um, not to point out the obvious, but there is history before white man in regards to continental America.

Same with Australia.

KeithBMI · #18 08-19-2009, 06:19 PM

Dr Stankface · #19 08-19-2009, 06:32 PM

Don't forget that there is plenty of history here before the Americas. (Pre-Columbian history) Definitely different in many senses but still there and incredibly impressive.

katibass · #20 08-19-2009, 06:35 PM

are we talking about perspectives only as they relate to age? old vs. new?

if so, here's a new direction, follow it or not, whichever you choose, lol.

my boyfriend grew up in scotland, i think he's only lived here in america five or so years, and he has a different perspective on a lot of things. one of the biggest things i've noticed is that he takes a lot of pride in his heritage, where a lot us in america don't know exactly or don't have a clue who our ancestors were.

like i said, may be a bit off topic, but whatev.