Do Schools Kill Creativity?

WyrmDL · #1 09-06-2010, 11:51 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

(Long video, 20 minutes, but very insightful)

What do you think of it? For the most part, I'm talking about the U.S. education system.

Maybe even in a more broad look, how well are schools doing, period? What is it doing right, what can be improved/changed?

I'm very anxious to hear the opinions here. Hopefully I'm not touching on a forbidden topic...?

DigMe · #2 09-06-2010, 12:00 PM

Schools are so different from one to the next that you cannot generalize such things about them.

bc

ADbassman · #3 09-06-2010, 12:40 PM

Like Digme said, schools vary so widely that it's impossible to generalize about the entire system. The school I went to certainly didn't actively stifle creativity. They taught it concurrently with more logic based subjects.

Bear in mind that not everybody was destined to be a dancer, musician, playwright, what have you. While the speaker makes a few good points, he really doesn't offer much of a case.

deesako · #4 09-06-2010, 12:46 PM

It's not the school's responsiblity. The people who will be the dancers, singers, will do so because they just do. They'll learn it with friends and family. They'll be from all walks of life.

Schools only produce more corporate creativity and I'm fine without that.

mike_v_s · #5 09-06-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigMe

Schools are so different from one to the next that you cannot generalize such things about them.

bc

This. I'd say you might see some schools or teachers fail to encourage creativity, but actually stifling it isn't something I can see happening THAT often.

Mike

bongomania · #6 09-06-2010, 12:53 PM

Schools don't kill creativity, people with schools do.

**jmattbassplaya** · #7 09-06-2010, 01:23 PM

I agree with the over-generalization pose, but I would also say that with standardized tests and a need to "make the grade" (thanks to No Child Left Behind - not meaning to be political at all, btw) creativity of any form has definitely taken a bask seat in a lot of schools.

I'd also add that at the rate schools are dropping art programs, music programs, and even sports teams, there is little left for kids to get out of school besides a formal education. Take that however you want, but I think it's a real shame.

basstotheface · #8 09-06-2010, 01:25 PM

I wish we had trade schools here in the US.

**StrangerDanger** · #9 09-06-2010, 01:30 PM

I thought this thread was about Dave Schools.

Sorry, please continue.

L-A · #10 09-06-2010, 01:39 PM

My higher education and current work revolve around creative thinking. I had to break my brain out of the shape it got through years of the same general studying before I produced any valuable ideas.

Now I can spot creative work from people who kept their "school" reasoning from miles away.

But seriously, I don't expect a school to assume that everyone can understand three levels of visual metaphor. It's one path you can take nowadays, and the non-creatives just won't take it. I don't think it's a problem per se.

Jim Nazium · #11 09-06-2010, 01:53 PM

Wow, that was a great speech. That guy is funny as hell, and he makes some very good points. I'll need to think about it some before I can post an intelligent response.

**bassybill** · #12 09-06-2010, 01:57 PM

Brad has it right, as you'd expect.

A couple of minor points:

@ADBassman: Being logical and being creative don't have to be separate; it is possible to be creative in maths and physical science, for example, just as much as it is in music, imo. Depends on how define your terms I suppose. But I can't see why being logical necessarily means not being creative at the same time.

@bongomania; Schools include all the people in them if you look at them a particular way. I don't think it's helpful to think of the school as "the buildings" and the people in them as something different, as it's the whole package that makes the difference to the students and the wider community.

Deluge Of Sound · #13 09-06-2010, 02:27 PM

Civic society kills creativity.

Tommygunn · #14 09-06-2010, 02:35 PM

Yes. Thats why you have to be left handed.

**bassybill** · #15 09-06-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Civic society kills creativity.

It might if you let it.

kesslari · #16 09-06-2010, 02:53 PM

for some very interesting thoughts on schools and schooling, read John Holt.

I wouldn't say that schools kill creativity so much as they foster sameness in thinking, hierarchical "proper" behavior, and a belief that learning is unpleasant, is something that is done *to* you, and that you would rather being doing almost anything else.

Historically it's worth noting that public schools coincide with the development of industrialization, and that the original goal of public schools was to produce docile, capable workers for factories and to reinforce the social hierarchy. The two main uses for the word "class" are for a group of children of the same age who share a physical educational setting, and for a socioeconomic group. In school there is a lot of social pressure not to socialize between classes - the "older cool kids" don't want to hang out with the younger "uncool" kids, and of course the younger kids look up to and wish to be like the "upper classes".

I could write a whole lot more on this, but I doubt that many people here are interested.

**jmattbassplaya** · #17 09-06-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

for some very interesting thoughts on schools and schooling, read John Holt.

I wouldn't say that schools kill creativity so much as they foster sameness in thinking, hierarchical "proper" behavior, and a belief that learning is unpleasant, is something that is done *to* you, and that you would rather being doing almost anything else.

Historically it's worth noting that public schools coincide with the development of industrialization, and that the original goal of public schools was to produce docile, capable workers for factories and to reinforce the social hierarchy. The two main uses for the word "class" are for a group of children of the same age who share a physical educational setting, and for a socioeconomic group. In school there is a lot of social pressure not to socialize between classes - the "older cool kids" don't want to hang out with the younger "uncool" kids, and of course the younger kids look up to and wish to be like the "upper classes".

I could write a whole lot more on this, but I doubt that many people here are interested.

I'm actually interested

That makes a lot of sense and is almost painstakingly obvious, but I never made the connection.

sloasdaylight · #18 09-06-2010, 03:10 PM

I know that I was encouraged to creatively examine and solve physics problems, analyze works of literature, and re-examine math problems while I was in HS. Now granted I was in the IB program in HS, so my school experience was different, but I don't think schools "Kill" creativity as a whole.

metallicafan18 · #19 09-06-2010, 03:18 PM

I don't think school itself kills creativity. I think it is the stuck-up pricks that run the school corporation that kill it. I am not talking about teachers either. I think my teachers I have had in the past really motivate me to go after what I want in life and try my hardest, and I give them all my respect for that reason, but it's the people that run the schools that want to brain-wash the students and teach them what they believe is right. That is just sickening to me.

I am pretty close to some of my teachers and I talk to them on a regular basis and they know how much I love music and they are always talking to me about it, and some even go to some of my shows. I've had a few cases where I have been called down to the office because of missing a day of school for a gig. I've been put down before because the "officials" say that I am heading to a life of failure and I will never become anything if I keep it up.

I never said I wanted to do music as a career, but I do it for a hobby and for a little extra cash, but when I am told this, it makes me wonder what else in life I have been lied to about just so I can get good grades and lead a "normal" life.

It just makes me sick to see the school officials shove this corporate BS down kids throats. I hate it.

bongomania · #20 09-06-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassybill

Schools include all the people in them if you look at them a particular way. I don't think it's helpful to think of the school as "the buildings" and the people in them as something different, as it's the whole package that makes the difference to the students and the wider community.

Sure, naturally--my line there was just spoofing on an old NRA (pro-gun) slogan.