Do you have to Justify your position at work?

[TheVoiceless]

Hey TB,

I've been wondering how many of you have had too come up with something to justify your position in a company. To me its seems funny how people in management always have to try and fix what is not broken to justify their bloated salaries.

To me this is the paradox of the work force. How come some one who labors, and provides tangible results makes less then some guy who works in an office and has no hands on experience?

I see this from the Government also. Like they create problems for them to fix.

Does anyone else understand what I am talking about?

Thanks TB

[Illbay]

Everyone has to justify his position at his job, whether he realizes it or not.

And I wouldn't ASS-ume that someone who "labors" makes less than an office worker...nor would I leave unquestioned the assumption that an "office worker" produces no tangible results.

[lowb1970]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

Hey TB,

I've been wondering how many of you have had too come up with something to justify your position in a company. To me its seems funny how people in management always have to try and fix what is not broken to justify their bloated salaries.

To me this is the paradox of the work force. How come some one who labors, and provides tangible results makes less then some guy who works in an office and has no hands on experience?

I see this from the Government also. Like they create problems for them to fix.

Does anyone else understand what I am talking about?

Thanks TB

All to well my friend. I have been on both sides of this fence and also a member of the Armed Forces (US Army) so I know first hand what you're talking about. It doesn't make sense and it NEVER will to me. If you figure it out please be sure to share with the rest of us.

I have learned to just do the very best I can and this helps me sleep at night. Be the best YOU possible and the right things will happen for you. That's my MANTRA

[TrooperFarva]

In my current company, I make more than my manager. And his manager. That's the advantage of working for a small company, making a lot of money, and then getting integrated into a conglomerate, and being recognized as critical to the success of the integration.

But the company I worked for in my last job more or less went under because it was too top heavy. Too many managers, not enough actual work getting done. I got out just before it went under. 3 more months and I would have gotten a sweet severance.

[baba]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

To me this is the paradox of the work force. How come some one who labors, and provides tangible results makes less then some guy who works in an office and has no hands on experience?

What makes you think someone who works in an office doesn't provide tangible results? They may be very hands on, just not with a wrench. Different skill sets, different roles, and therefore different position and pay.

For a simple scenario...I can start a landscaping company today and immediately hire hands on labor that I'm sure can effectively do their work. However, it will be a real challenge to find the guy who can manage these people, schedule all the jobs and resources based on workload and skills, communicate intelligently and rationally to customers, and exercise good judgment and decision making. This is the guy I'm paying well once I find him. Laborers are everywhere.

This isn't meant to be demeaning. I'm just laying out the reality of putting together a team.

[dangnewt]

Originally Posted by Illbay

Everyone has to justify his position at his job, whether he realizes it or not.

And I wouldn't ASS-ume that someone who "labors" makes less than an office worker...nor would I leave unquestioned the assumption that an "office worker" produces no tangible results.

+1 .

One of my consulting contracts had to be justified in front of an entire New England Town Meeting. If my colleague and I couldn't show value, the taxpayers would have voted to not renew. Fortunately, we could and they did.

Times are tough, middle managers are getting pressure from above and the top execs are worried about meeting payroll. If asked for justification, help them do their jobs by giving them the best justification that you can.

[SteveC]

Virtually every day.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Illbay

Everyone has to justify his position at his job, whether he realizes it or not.

And I wouldn't ASS-ume that someone who "labors" makes less than an office worker...nor would I leave unquestioned the assumption that an "office worker" produces no tangible results.

Yeah, I do mostly agree with this sentiment.

Although in my old job, I was put into a situation where on 2 separate occasions, I had to train a new person (higher-paid than I) to do a job that I was supposedly not qualified to do, long story but it's just plain mis-management.
Things in the business world don't always make sense.

[TheVoiceless]

Originally Posted by baba

What makes you think someone who works in an office doesn't provide tangible results? They may be very hands on, just not with a wrench. Different skill sets, different roles, and therefore different position and pay.

For a simple scenario...I can start a landscaping company today and immediately hire hands on labor that I'm sure can effectively do their work. However, it will be a real challenge to find the guy who can manage these people, schedule all the jobs and resources based on workload and skills, communicate intelligently and rationally to customers, and exercise good judgment and decision making. This is the guy I'm paying well once I find him. Laborers are everywhere.

This isn't meant to be demeaning. I'm just laying out the reality of putting together a team.

I think you mis understood me. I had a hard time trying to express what I meant in words so I can see why you may have. I work in an office. So its not so much where you work. Its your position. I guess what I am trying to say is , do you have to come up with ways to keep your job? Not trying to offend.

[TheVoiceless]

Originally Posted by Illbay

Everyone has to justify his position at his job, whether he realizes it or not.

And I wouldn't ASS-ume that someone who "labors" makes less than an office worker...nor would I leave unquestioned the assumption that an "office worker" produces no tangible results.

You mis understood what I am asking, my bad.

[steve21]

I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to.

I have people skills.

[MakiSupaStar]

Usually when you get called in to justify your position there are layoffs looming on the horizon. I've been there. I've had to justify my position many times. Usually right after than meeting I get resume and portfolio in order and start sniffing around for a new job.

[PSPookie]

Originally Posted by steve21

I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to.

I have people skills.

I have engineering skills so I don't have to deal with the goddamn customers

[BigKahuna13]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

Hey TB,

I've been wondering how many of you have had too come up with something to justify your position in a company. To me its seems funny how people in management always have to try and fix what is not broken to justify their bloated salaries.

To me this is the paradox of the work force. How come some one who labors, and provides tangible results makes less then some guy who works in an office and has no hands on experience?

I see this from the Government also. Like they create problems for them to fix.

Does anyone else understand what I am talking about?

Thanks TB

No hands on experience? I'm a technology manager and I know the technology far better than anyone who works for me. In fact a part of my job is teaching.

Another part is coordination. There are very few jobs left where one person does it all. That means what my group does has to be coordinated with what one or more (usually more) other groups is doing or else a bunch of people do a lot of work with no tangible result. Coordination just doesn't happen.

Finally someone's gotta make decisions and take the heat when things don't go right.

[baba]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

I think you mis understood me. I had a hard time trying to express what I meant in words so I can see why you may have. I work in an office. So its not so much where you work. Its your position. I guess what I am trying to say is , do you have to come up with ways to keep your job? Not trying to offend.

Understood, no problem. I personally don't have to justify my position or come up with ways to keep my job. We are very short staffed and everyone is very busy. Of course we got that way through layoffs and a lot of the dead wood (and some good wood unfortunately) got cut out. A sign of the times I guess.


Kinda like this:

[thefruitfarmer]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

I think you mis understood me. I had a hard time trying to express what I meant in words so I can see why you may have. I work in an office. So its not so much where you work. Its your position. I guess what I am trying to say is , do you have to come up with ways to keep your job? Not trying to offend.

I think it is necessary to know what your value is to your boss.

I have a colleague who is his own work creation scheme, always says how busy he is, involved in "important" conversations, writing verbose memorandum, being the sage to young people etc etc.

However, the figures show he is only dealing with about half my workload and taking longer to do it. So my value is that I am efficient, get on with the job but don't necessarily create an obvious image of doing the job.

I have decided to leave the company because I have to work closely with this fool and for political reasons they won't get rid of him overtly. However, they have upped his workload, which is essentially the problem - he has n't got enough work to do - so they may be doing something without telling me.........

Am going to have an evil cackle if he can't up his game to cope with a workload I can easily deal with.

I am selling myself to other employers on the grounds that I get on with the job ....

So yeah.... IMO it is important to be aware of your worth at work and in a competitive market be able to make an argument as to why you may be worth more than a colleague....

[baba]

Originally Posted by thefruitfarmer

I think it is necessary to know what your value is to your boss.

I have a colleague who is his own work creation scheme, always says how busy he is, involved in "important" conversations, writing verbose memorandum, being the sage to young people etc etc.

However, the figures show he is only dealing with about half my workload and taking longer to do it. So my value is that I am efficient, get on with the job but don't necessarily create an obvious image of doing the job.

I have decided to leave the company because I have to work closely with this fool and for political reasons they won't get rid of him overtly. However, they have upped his workload, which is essentially the problem - he has n't got enough work to do - so they may be doing something without telling me.........

Am going to have an evil cackle if he can't up his game to cope with a workload I can easily deal with.

I am selling myself to other employers on the grounds that I get on with the job ....

So yeah.... IMO it is important to be aware of your worth at work and in a competitive market be able to make an argument as to why you may be worth more than a colleague....

This brings to mind another important point - PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING. How you carry and represent yourself is extremely important and can often outweigh the value of what you actually produce. It often sucks, it's often political BS, but it is also often a fact in the workplace.

[TheVoiceless]

I think what I am trying to say is, take for example do you have to come up with ways to increase your budget, or to keep your dept?

[LiquidMidnight]

That's funny if you have to justify your position. It's called job analysis and any first year HR generalist should be familiar with it. If management has to ask people to justify their positions, then there's something majorily wrong with command.

[rustynuts]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceless

I think what I am trying to say is, take for example do you have to come up with ways to increase your budget, or to keep your dept?

That should be in the hands of management, not the workers. Is this a problem where you work?