Does it matter where stuff is made?

[Sneakypete]

We might all want high end gear but many of us can only afford or reasonably justify buying mid-range equipment. That didn't used to be a problem - plenty of US and UK manufacturers to choose from - but now?So much production has moved to the the Far East it's hard to think of any that still produce middle-of-the-range gear at home now. Carvin in the US perhaps but no-one this side of the pond. So, I'd like to hear what you think - does it matter if your amp is Taiwanese? It might look and even sound the same but does it feel the same? When you look closely at a new amp and see "designed in the US, made in PRC" does that put you off and if so why?

[username1]

You get what you pay for! A cheap peice of gear will be cheap no mater where it's built. Also a higher priced peice that is built in the orient is just as good as one built any other place IMO. They are as capable of building electronics as anyone else.

[SpamBot]

It's not that Chinese gear is generally bad, it's that US gear is generally good.

[Rick_no7]

It is not just of "where" its made, its the fact that it is that company's budget line most of the time. There is no way that a company is going to send or pay for the best materials for their Chinese made stuff. Fender did that once, and now they try their best to keep you from importing Japanese Fenders.

I do not see China and think "the Chinese can't make anything worth using" I see Made in China and think "ok so company A sent their bottom barrel scraps there to be assembled"

Of course there's a 2nd part to it too. I KNOW the lead company is saving a lot of money by outsourcing like that. So I will not pay Made in the USA/Germany/UK prices for something coming out of the 3rd world.

There are exceptions to everything though. Some amps are assembled in one country and finished in another. Some are inspected in one country or have parts from another.

[coreyfyfe]

I'd say no, since most of the electronic components that go into any amp are probably made in the cheapest location (ie China or somewhere along those lines) any how.

[FighttheSilence]

Well, you don't hear alot of bad things about the construction of Orange Amps (UK), vs. the chorus of negatives on the Behringers (China or some where like it). Not saying that all there gear is poor quality, but it makes us American feel better when our stuff is called higher quality.

[bongomania]

In theory, fine craftsmanship or assembly can be done anywhere, given a good budget--and shoddy workmanship can be found anywhere, on a poor budget.

However, I think it was Jerrold Tiers (formerly of Ampeg) who mentioned that the more established industrialized nations had a well-trained workforce in their factories, and QC managers with experience in the industry; while the developing nations had only minimally-trained, barely-educated farmers in their factories, such that anything factory-made in a developing nation would be likely to poorly made, or have low quality-control standards. Nothing to do with the nationality of the workers, but everything to do with the low education and experience typical of the specific people doing the work.

I was dead-set against the idea that country of origin made any difference, until I read that position, which makes sense to me.

(P.S. Jerrold, if it wasn't you, let me know and I'll edit this post.)

[scarified]

Absolutely. It is the single most important quality a product has and if a product is not made in the US or UK then it is automatically ruled out. In my case, I am a British/American dual national and I am very proud of where I come from and where I live.

My current bass rig is 100% British - Status bass, Trace Elliot amp, Laney cabs, Fane speakers; and I play Gibson/Martin/PRS guitars through my 2 Marshalls and 1 Mesa Boogie. (I drive an Aston Martin too - and before that, a Jaguar). I'd be thoroughly ashamed to be seen playing Chinese gear or driving a Japanese car.

My American wife refuses to shop at Wal-Mart and we make every effort to buy American (or British) no matter what we need. Sure we pay more, but we are supporting our friends and neighbo(u)rs and it makes us feel good.

I am currently looking for a new bass amp, and I am really disappointed at how little quality gear is available. Apparently Ashdown is switching back to UK production. I sure hope they do.

[JimmyM]

My country and my people can bite me. None of them ever supported MY business endeavors. I buy stuff that I like, period. If it comes from America, great. If it doesn't, then maybe instead of companies waving the flag asking why I'm a bad American, they should ask why I bought something made elsewhere.

[username1]

I doubt very much that China and Korea have " minimally-trained, barely-educated farmers" in their factories. Have you ever been there?? They place high value on education and work ethics. One trip to Korea will show you how far behind we really are compared to them. This efficiency is the reason we are loosing the manufacturing to them not because they employ a bunch of low paid peasants. I personally refuse to support inefficiency just cause it makes me feel good.

[FighttheSilence]

Originally Posted by scarified

Absolutely. It is the single most important quality a product has and if a product is not made in the US or UK then it is automatically ruled out. In my case, I am a British/American dual national and I am very proud of where I come from and where I live.

My current bass rig is 100% British - Status bass, Trace Elliot amp, Laney cabs, Fane speakers; and I play Gibson/Martin/PRS guitars through my 2 Marshalls and 1 Mesa Boogie. (I drive an Aston Martin too - and before that, a Jaguar). I'd be thoroughly ashamed to be seen playing Chinese gear or driving a Japanese car.

My American wife refuses to shop at Wal-Mart and we make every effort to buy American (or British) no matter what we need. Sure we pay more, but we are supporting our friends and neighbo(u)rs and it makes us feel good.

I am currently looking for a new bass amp, and I am really disappointed at how little quality gear is available. Apparently Ashdown is switching back to UK production. I sure hope they do.

I know this is a bass site, but you could post a pic of your Austin Martin, those are the sweetest cars ever.

[scarified]

Originally Posted by FighttheSilence

I know this is a bass site, but you could post a pic of your Austin Martin, those are the sweetest cars ever.

Yes.



Can any other TB'ers who own the same model recommend a (pair of) cab(s) that fit in the trunk ? Epifani PS112s maybe ?

[JustDavid]

My view is "where" has no impact on quality, at least on the first level or 2 of looking into the problem. And that looking into that direction takes time & energy away from looking at the real issues in a product area.

"How" something is made is where the issues arise. It's entirely possible to have a problem-ridden design sloppily made & poorly inspected from a Canadian, UK, or US shop.

What do manufacturers do to cut costs? One way is to move the factory to an area with lower pay or taxes. One way is to use less-skilled & therefore cheaper workers. One way is to cut corners in the materials. One way is to cut corners in the design (down-scale or eliminate protection circuitry, to make up an example). One way is to steal designs instead of coming up with your own.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by username1

I doubt very much that China and Korea have " minimally-trained, barely-educated farmers" in their factories. Have you ever been there?

The opinion I was presenting was from somebody who has been there many times, in the amplifier business.

[Captain Bob]

Well, you asked...

Indeed, it's a world market. And, Bongo is correct.
But, one day when you wake up and learn you won't be purchasing that new amp today because your employer has decided to eliminate your position,and it's being moved to a locale where a wage earner is paid less than 5 dollars a day, will you then wonder, what fell on you.
Consequently, if the rule of scale applied, you would be able to purchase your new Nampeg SVT-VR, for $299.00. Hmmm....

I just paid a reasonably high price for an amp made in the USA, constructed in low numbers, using quality components to include superior build quality, paying US wages (hopefully benefits), for a tone that may considered comparable to some others on the market, depending on the ears.
But, I anticipate 'getting what I paid for'.

I also have an amp manufactured in Italy. A fine product, and again, my perception of value for the money.
I considered a new DR201 Hiwatt too. Again, most likely reasonable value for the money etc, exchange rate is not the best though, and the company is a bit distant (at shipping weight) should a meltdown occur.

What I'm attempting to illustrate is that 'value for the money' may greatly exceed what one actually pays for a product irregardless of price. I would like to see Reeves do well.

Actually, I will shop at Walmart, but I prefer Target. I do believe we should support the purchase of Chinese product. Because without them, from whom would the US be able to keep borrowing its money from, to stimulate it's economy.........the Italians?

Gee.....

[BurningSkies]

We all draw different lines. I won't shop at walmart.

[bongomania]

Well put, Bob. It is a conundrum for sure.

[Jim C]

Another view point:
What will happen when a country like China with a large disposable work force gets up to speed on QC and design, and then starts intentionaly making quality products?
I would think that will hurt manufacturing in a big way in all other countries.

Years ago I had a mail order business that bought and resold reproduction antique car parts. A vendor in North Carolina made mirrors localy but sent then eventualy sent them overseas for plating as the EPA came out with new guidelines for disposing of dangerous chemicals and his local plater stopped offering chrome. He said his import / export agent told him that the Chinese would pour the spent hazerdous plating baths in the gravel parking lost behind the factory.
Turned out that even with shipping it was less expensive.
When you combine that type of lawlessness with unreasonably low wages it's pretty hard to compete.

That was 12 years ago, not sure if it still occurs.

[gareth dunster]

I bought a pair of chinese made PA speakers. I got them cheap as I know a gentleman who works in copyright protection and the speaker company was being investigated for infringement. They have beautifully made class D amps, good quality drivers, super thick cases etc etc. The sound is fantastic.
I piked one up and the handle fell off because they'd used screws that were too short.
That's how it works. I could have dropped it down the stairs and smashed it too hell, because of a couple of screws.

[Captain Bob]

Why, thank you, Bongo. But, I dont think BurningSkies quite understood my Wal-Mart inference :-)