Does a spiked collar hurt a dog?

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Wrong. If your dog tries to attack others, there is immediate danger...at least to the dogs.

Putting a collar on a dog with spikes pointing in, is in my opinion, cruelty to animals and should result in the animal being taken away from the owner. Of course it will hurt the dog!

I think the idea is absolutely inexcusable and unacceptable.

Train the dog.

(PS - I'm not an animal rights type, but I have no sympathy for those who fail to train animals and instead come up with ways to injure them when they don't behave in ways they have not been trained to behave. I believe owners carry primary responsibility.)

While owners may carry primary responsibility, there are some instincts within dog breeds that you're going to be extraordinarily lucky if you can get the dog to to not do. Greyhounds are a great example, even if you don't get a non-retired racer, they'll still take off like a shot against some sort of coursing prey, like a rabbit or squirrel. Rottweilers usually will rarely bark. Jack Russell terriers won't ever sit down, and if you hooked them up to a treadmill 3 of them could probably power the entirety of Kansas and Nebraska.

I'm pretty good with dogs, and have been able to assert myself over most of the dogs I've encountered that have been owned by my friends or family, but one of my friends had a Siberian Husky mix, and despite years of training, that dog would still get into "pull mode" when you put the harness on it. Not to mention how it would try and assert itself as pack leader if you looked at it the wrong way.

You're free to act outraged at a perfectly valid and safe training aid all you want, but the pressure exerted by the pinch collars is really genuinely not anywhere near as much as you're probably thinking it is. Like I mentioned before most dog breeds have a lot of extra skin on and around their neck, and their skin in many cases is tough. When I play with my dogs, my arms will usually get quite scratched up, and that's just from them using their paws and claws. I don't want to imagine what would happen to my arm if they decided to use their teeth on me, like they do on each other, around each others' necks.

[Lowactnsatsfctn]

Originally Posted by Steve S

A 100 pound dog can be dangerous so I'm trying to figure out something that can provide more control. Sometimes I'm wary of taking him out of the car if I see a lot of dogs. Besides being big, he's extremely strong and I never let him out of the car without the leash being attached and the handle twisted around my wrist.

As the owner of large dogs, Id recommend getting a muzzle until you got this dog under control. For legal and financial reasons, it may be in your best interest to.

IME, pincher collars work well, but its not designed to drag them around, its to give a quick tug (Simulating a bite)
I went through a similar thing with my Cane Corso. When I walked him he would charge toward the fence and try to get at other dogs. I would put my foot on his back and pressed his hind down. Its a dominance thing with dogs, but it worked after a while.
YMMV

[Steve S]

Someone asked if the dog is fixed and it is..He'd probably be much harder to control if he wasn't. Another person commented that a muscular pit bull doesn't always respond well to prong collars. Why is that because this dog is a very muscular pit bull? He is scary looking but you wouldn't believe the people, especially women, who want to touch him. One woman, touched him all over his body and gave him a gentle massage. I would never come close to a strange dog who looks like this let alone touch him.

I've thought about using a muzzle too. Would that work with the pronged collar?

I guess I'd better look into getting him trained because my daughter won't do it. He has become part of our family so we can't just get rid of him.

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Steve S

Someone asked if the dog is fixed and it is..He'd probably be much harder to control if he wasn't. Another person commented that a muscular pit bull doesn't always respond well to prong collars. Why is that because this dog is a very muscular pit bull? He is scary looking but you wouldn't believe the people, especially women, who want to touch him. One woman, touched him all over his body and gave him a gentle massage. I would never come close to a strange dog who looks like this let alone touch him.

I've thought about using a muzzle too. Would that work with the pronged collar?

I guess I'd better look into getting him trained because my daughter won't do it. He has become part of our family so we can't just get rid of him.

Pits were bred for a long time to have a lot of dog/dog aggression in them, with relatively little dog/human aggression, so you're kind of fighting an up-hill battle. As far as why the pinch collar won't work against him, I don't know.

I think that at this point it's going to be pretty hard to socialize out that behavior from that dog, and a muzzle probably would be a decent idea.

[Mushroo]

Well you are describing the hallmark of dog behavior: absolute snugglebug toward those perceived as "friend," brutal toward those perceived as "enemy." After attacks, you always read the owners making comments like "but Fido was so loving and gentle with our family." Well of course Fido was like that because he's a dog, and perhaps the reason he was so vicious toward the person/dog he bit because he thought he was protecting his "pack!"

Anyway, if you have a 100lb muscular pit mix with aggressive behavior, you might be in over your head. I'd suggest contacting the pit bull rescue in your area to see if they can recommend a trainer experienced working with this breed. Something like a supervised play group with other dogs will do wonders to improve the socialization.

[ShredderMaximus]

Another +1 for gentle leaders. I was introduced to them when my mom started raising puppies for CCI and they work great. Some dogs I've seen just don't react to those pronged collars. Put a gentle leader on and it will always set them straight. The ones I've always seen didn't pinch or anything, but with how it clips to the leash on the the side of the dogs face, whenever they pull it turns they're head so they can't see where they're going, stopping them from pulling.

[Frank Tuesday]

Of course it hurts the dog. That is the point of it. You are punishing unwanted behavior. Of course there is no guarantee that this will cause the dog to become submissive, it is also possible that the pain will cause the dog to become more aggressive.

Before you put one on your dog, put it on your own neck and see what it feels like when someone pulls on it hard. Same goes for shock collars.

[Mushroo]

Originally Posted by Frank Tuesday

Before you put one on your dog, put it on your own neck and see what it feels like when someone pulls on it hard. Same goes for shock collars.

That's just silly... dog necks are nothing like human necks... my family has a Lab and his neck is just ridiculous, must have at least 6 inches of loose skin, you could put a bear trap around his neck and he probably wouldn't feel a thing!

Anyway the pinch or the shock is probably no more painful to the dog than spanking a child or rapping their fingers with a ruler when they misbehave. Especially considering the alternative... I just read that two Rotties in my home state were put down today for biting a 14 yo kid who climbed a barbed wire fence and was trespassing. Dogs don't instinctively know the "right and wrong" of living in a human world, and must be properly trained.

[Kawai-chang]

Another vote for the Halti or gentle leader, I controlled my dog with 2 fingers, and he went about the same weight.

[Mr L]

I would suggest a tightening collar that isn't spiked, basically the collar hangs loose but when you pull it tightens up.

Also instead of pulling try a swift and sudden pull back of the collar, not so hard you jerk their neck but enough to remind them you are in charge of where they go and how fast they get there. A slight tug will work much better than trying to fight them in a tug of war.

[Strat-Mangler]

Originally Posted by Steve S

Someone asked if the dog is fixed and it is..He'd probably be much harder to control if he wasn't. Another person commented that a muscular pit bull doesn't always respond well to prong collars. Why is that because this dog is a very muscular pit bull? He is scary looking but you wouldn't believe the people, especially women, who want to touch him. One woman, touched him all over his body and gave him a gentle massage. I would never come close to a strange dog who looks like this let alone touch him.

That's why it's paramount for you to train him.

Originally Posted by Steve S

I've thought about using a muzzle too. Would that work with the pronged collar?

Yes and you should use both with powerful breeds like this. With a labrador, for instance, I wouldn't say it's a necessity.

Originally Posted by Steve S

I guess I'd better look into getting him trained because my daughter won't do it. He has become part of our family so we can't just get rid of him.

You've mentioned this twice, now.

A child who takes care of the family pet by feeding him, walking him, picking up the dog poo, bathing him, training him, etc is quite the exception. Not sure why you're surprised, but he's essentially your responsibility.

Good luck in training him. You'll also have to train the other family members to respect the same rules you're laying down onto the pooch. Nothing confuses dogs more than having different rules (what's (un)acceptable) for each family member. Confusion can lead to nervous energy or, in some cases, aggressive behavior stemming from frustration.

[Jazz Ad]

The prong collar is much more efficient and gentle on the dog than any other mean of control. It's pretty much a perfect tool.

[mpdd]

in LA you see these blue pits that are probably mixed with mastiffs, because they are huge, i could barely walk my friends and i'm 200 lbs and over six feet tall, with this sort of insane strength you need to be firm, fair, and respectful even with pro help my friend's dog eventually killed a neighbors cat and later jumped their tall fence and mauled a neighbors dog, my small female pit is only 50lbs and she can get pretty uncooperative when it comes to defending me from dogs she perceives as enemies, and she was attacked by a friends pit at a barbecue when she was young before she became dog aggro

i am a little leery of the pits around here, because people are mixing them with attack dogs and training them to be guard dogs and fighting dogs

[MJ5150]

I would not use a pinch collar to control a dog, but maybe to train. If someone feels the need to control an animal by inflicting pain, the dog is not the problem.

-Mike

[Jazz Ad]

The dog, not the master is inflicting itself pain.

[Hopkins]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi.

And scratch the collar and get a harness, any dog IMLE behaves way better in a harness than in a collar.

Regards
Sam

This is very bad information.

First of all, if you think a dog can pull hard with a collar, try putting him in something that is designed for him to pull. A harness is designed for a working dog to pull.

The correct thing to do is to position his collar high around his neck where its touching his jaw. Shorten his leash and when he tries to pull. You pull up on the leash pointing his head upward and dont let him move till he calms down. Control his head and you control the dog.

You also have to be aware of the dog when walking him. Dont let him surprise you.

[kentiki]

Originally Posted by Mushroo

Like it or not, Sam, dogs understand pain and it can be an effective training tool. A well-fitted prong collar simulates the disciplinary nip that one dog would give another misbehaving dog. You are communicating with the dog in a language that it instinctively understands, the language of touch. The prong collar does not break the skin or cause permanent damage. The pinching sensation is certainly less painful than getting in a fight with another dog, or having to be put down.

As I mentioned above, it is a training tool, not a "magic bullet." Work with the prong collar in a calm, controlled environment at first. The last thing you want is to use it for the first time on a walk where your dog will encounter another male dog. Then you run the risk of your dog associating the pinching with the other dog, reinforcing the exact behavior that you are trying to prevent!

+1

For dogs with thick necks (pits, etc), a pinch collar is actually much safer for your dog than a conventional training collar (chain). These breeds require so much force with a conventional collar, that it can actually injure their neck. A pinch collar requires a quick pull and the dog will usually respond.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by Tat2dHeart

I have a big dog (80 lbs) who likes to chase squirrels on his walks. After a broken hand from this little fiasco, I started with a prong collar for his longer walks so he'd resist pulling. It definitely helped and there was never a situation where he had broken skin due to the prongs, however, every time he tugged against it in the beginning, my heart broke. After speaking with my veterinarian and the local obedience trainer, I switched to a "Gentle Leader" training collar. All nylon and no sharp edges. It's also referred to as a "head collar," and goes across the dog's head and muzzle. When he pulls, it applies pressure in an uncomfortable place on his nose, so he stops pulling. It definitely does the trick while you're working on training him to loose lead walk with you in an appropriate manner while he's out in public.

You, madam, are the WINNER of this thread. We do NOT need to use pronged collars to train dogs. The gentle leader is an effective tool. I have used a choke chain, in the past, but it is not my favorite.

The biggest thing is, we teach the animal to walk beside us, and we stop, and correct, every SINGLE TIME the animal does not follow the program. By using consistency, we TEACH the animal what is required of him or her, and we build a relationship of love and respect. It is easy to be the pack leader when your dog respects you.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by Hopkins

This is very bad information.

First of all, if you think a dog can pull hard with a collar, try putting him in something that is designed for him to pull. A harness is designed for a working dog to pull.

The correct thing to do is to position his collar high around his neck where its touching his jaw. Shorten his leash and when he tries to pull. You pull up on the leash pointing his head upward and dont let him move till he calms down. Control his head and you control the dog.

You also have to be aware of the dog when walking him. Dont let him surprise you.

More really GOOD advice.

Harnesses? Do NOT use them.

And as always, you have to train yourself to train the dog. If you want to walk a dog without paying any attention to what he is doing, then you want to jump off a cliff without falling.

It is simply a bad idea.

[jeffbonny]

A good start to becoming less clueless about dogs is reading How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend . Understanding the mistakes that were made with your adult dog will go a lot further to solving your problems than regular doses of pain will. If you feel need to use pain regularly in the form of a prong collar or other similar devise you're doing something pretty wrong. What most people fail to completely comprehend is the enormous time required to train a dog to behave to society's standards in an urban or even semi-urban environment. There aren't many problems you can't solve having a dog with you constantly for 18 months and paying close attention to it.

Yes there are a few dogs that are too abused, too dumb or were just born too crazy to ever reliably bring to heel but they are the minority.