Drinking and driving: a rant

[stratovani]

I really feel the need to rant about the events in the Chad Michael Horne thread, but I feel that thread would not be the appropriate place to do this. Perhaps this forum is also not an appropriate place, and if the members feel so, my apologies, but I have to say it.

Mankind has been drinking alcoholic beverages for thousands of years now, and the automobile has been around for over a hundred years. Therefore, it stands to reason that there is a huge accumulated body of knowledge in humanity's collective consciousness that says comsumption of large quantities of alcoholic beverages will impair a person's judgement and motor skills. It was true operating a chariot in Ancient Rome, operating a horse-drawn wagon in Medieval Europe, and is obviously (and painfully) true operating a vehicle in modern times. My question is thus: Is there a huge segment of the world's population that has just arrived from Alpha Centauri, that has no idea about this? Everybody knows that drinking and driving don't mix. Yet people still do it, oftentimes with disastrous, and fatal, consequences. Why? Why do people, in this day and age, still drink and drive? I don't understand. Is a segment of the population just stupid, or uncaring, or addicted? They can't be unknowledgable; I can't accept that they don't know the dangers.

I feel that telling someone not to drink and drive is pointless, because people know, yet some will do so anyways. And, as everyone knows, terrible consequences happen. So what is the answer? Tougher laws? Maybe. Raising awareness. I don't know if you can raise awareness any more than it is. I do think educating kids at a young age is very important. So what do you think?

[tplyons]

The issue is everyone is self-centered and doesn't think it'll happen to them.

I have several acquaintances that drank and drove regularly. This is a very big reason I don't consider them friends.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by tplyons

The issue is everyone is self-centered and doesn't think it'll happen to them.

I have several acquaintances that drank and drove regularly. This is a very big reason I don't consider them friends.

+1

Everyone thinks they are the best driver to ever live.

The truth: most are ******* horrible, and booze just makes them even worse.

[DanAleks]

Drinking not only messes with your motor skills, it also horks up your decision making skills.

You make questionable and/or bad decisions when drunk.

E.G. public urination, taking somebody butt ugly home with you, mouthing off to the bouncer, getting behind the wheel when you shouldn't, etc.

[hbarcat]

In college (late 80's), I started hanging out with heavy drinkers and I also used to go to parties and binge drink. Lots of people would drink and drive and even though everyone saw the PSA's about not drinking and driving it just didn't mean very much to a lot of people. I admit that I would drink and drive occasionally and I rationalized it by telling myself that I was a good enough driver to not cause an accident and that as long as I wasn't really trashed then that was at least better than some other crappy drivers on the road who were bad sober drivers.

The fact is, as long as there were no consequences to drinking and driving and as long as we could pretend that if we made it home safe without causing an accident, then those who told us not to drink and drive were a bunch of busybodies.

When I was 21, I got pulled over for taillight out and got busted for DUI. That meant consequences to me since I lost my license for 3 months and had to pay fines and court costs.

I haven't driven under the influence since then. I chose to look at the DUI as a learning lesson and it didn't take a lot of thought to figure out that I got off pretty easy compared to what could have happened if I hit someone and caused injury or death to others. When you're immature and selfish then drinking and driving is an issue of convenience. When you grow up and start thinking about how your actions affect the well being of others then it becomes and issue of morality.

It's morally wrong to drive several tons of vehicle down a public street when you're impaired by alcohol or drugs. Yet there are some people who don't care about the morality of it (like me when I was younger) and the deterrence of legal consequences has to be used instead. Nowadays for a DUI violation, the threshold of impairment is lower, the loss of license is longer and the fines are higher. But they're still nothing compared to what will happen if you injure or kill someone else.

[Steve]

Because the whole point of drinking to excess is to lower your inhibitions and alter your judgment.

Everyone that has ever driven drunk has said while sober, "drunk driving is stupid". I've never seen anyone "accidentally" get drunk. They leave the house knowing whether or not they're on a mission.

Americans think it's their God given right to do any friggan thing they want any friggan time they want to do it. Don't ask me why.

Somebody once opined (here I think) that you could end 99.9% of automotive stupidity within 24 hours simply by removing the seat belt and replacing the air bag with a 3 foot long steel spike. I tend to agree.

[theory028]

My brother was recently telling me about how he saw a drunk driver on the side of the road. Apparently the guy had stopped to urinate on the side of the road and was having a hard time getting into his car. It sounds like he was halfway in but his feet were out in the road.

My brother pulled over and helped the guy get in the car and kept him their until the cops could arrive at the scene. My family is so lucky that his encounter with the drunk took place on the side of the road and not in an accident (or the piece of crap hitting and killing some other traveler).

Also, the father of one of the kids in my grade was driving under the influence and ended up hitting a state trooper. The officer was killed.

It's really disgusting.

[need4mospd]

You can generally break down why people do what they do by looking at the incentives. If they believe the incentive is worth any punishment, or that the chance of the punishment occurring is slim, they'll do it. That's breaking it down to the basics. The punishment is not enough of a deterrent.

If a law was passed that all drunk drivers would get a giant tattoo on their foreheads that said "**** FACE", their genitals were removed, their children taken from their home, and their license permanently revoked, it would effectively stop over night. Why don't we do that? I'm guessing, most people would think that's a bit barbaric. Though somehow letting 40,000 people die every year is NOT barbaric. Hmrph.... Of course the real reason likely has to do with the chances of it happening to an innocent person, or maybe the fact it would put THOUSANDS of bars out of business and no law maker would sign that?

[need4mospd]

Originally Posted by Steve

Somebody once opined (here I think) that you could end 99.9% of automotive stupidity within 24 hours simply by removing the seat belt and replacing the air bag with a 3 foot long steel spike. I tend to agree.

I like the way you think.

[UncleFluffy]

Agreed, drunk driving is tantamount to saying to everyone else on the road that their lives are less important than the drunk driver's entertainment, and anyone who drives with that attitude needs to be off the road for the rest of their lives.

I'd be very happy to see a simple law added that says "anything done under the influence of drugs/alcohol intentionally consumed becomes an intentional act".

[ehque]

Originally Posted by stratovani

comsumption of large quantities of alcoholic beverages will impair a person's judgement and motor skills. It was true operating a chariot in Ancient Rome, operating a horse-drawn wagon in Medieval Europe, and is obviously (and painfully) true operating a vehicle in modern times. My question is thus: Is there a huge segment of the world's population that has just arrived from Alpha Centauri, that has no idea about this? Everybody knows that drinking and driving don't mix. Yet people still do it, oftentimes with disastrous, and fatal, consequences. Why?

There's your problem.

Originally Posted by need4mospd

You can generally break down why people do what they do by looking at the incentives. If they believe the incentive is worth any punishment, or that the chance of the punishment occurring is slim, they'll do it. That's breaking it down to the basics. The punishment is not enough of a deterrent.

If a law was passed that all drunk drivers would get a giant tattoo on their foreheads that said "**** FACE", their genitals were removed, their children taken from their home, and their license permanently revoked, it would effectively stop over night. Why don't we do that? I'm guessing, most people would think that's a bit barbaric. Though somehow letting 40,000 people die every year is NOT barbaric. Hmrph.... Of course the real reason likely has to do with the chances of it happening to an innocent person, or maybe the fact it would put THOUSANDS of bars out of business and no law maker would sign that?

Someone with an impaired judgement is not going to make logical cost benefit analyses.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by UncleFluffy

I'd be very happy to see a simple law added that says "anything done under the influence of drugs/alcohol intentionally consumed becomes an intentional act".

+1

I think it's been heading in this legal direction anyway and I hope to see more of it.

[need4mospd]

Originally Posted by ehque

Someone with an impaired judgement is not going to make logical cost benefit analyses.

You usually decide to impair your judgment long before your judgment is impaired. This is the point these decisions should be made. Someone not capable of doing so, has no business being behind the wheel of a car, ever. There's usually a plan such as, "I'm going to X bar, consuming alcohol, and I'll eventually need to come home." Alcohol doesn't accidentally fall down your throat. And if you're not capable of stopping yourself from drinking more once you've started, besides having a serious problem, you are responsible for figuring out how to get home without driving BEFORE you start drinking. It's not hard at all, and most of my friends do this every weekend without ever having a drunk person behind the wheel.

[celticafro]

I really don't like how cavalier people are with alcohol behind the wheel. I'll admit, I think some of our laws go a little too far. For instance, I think it's silly for an open container to qualify as an offence, but that's yer typical puritan attitude for ya. I think as long as you're under .08 and stay there, you shouldn't be hassled. I lived in Australia for a year, and it blew my mind that you could technically have a drink behind the wheel. But if you got caught over that .08 limit, you were toast, as I feel you should be.

Aside from that one nit-picky complaint, I think that the spirit of our alcohol laws are just right. No one should be allowed to get so wasted that they can barely re-enter their car.

Bringing it a little off-topic, I think the 21yo age-limit hasn't really worked for us. I didn't realize until recently that the limit was 18 until the mid-eighties. Theoretically, it was supposed to prevent excessive drinking in our youth, but in my experience, it's made it worse. I drank a bunch as an under-ager, and we all knew that we had to get rid of the evidence, or risk getting some kind of suspension or jail time. Binging was impossible to avoid.

I think making the legal age higher made it more enticing. In Australia, the legal age is 18, and i saw the same kinds of abuses of alcohol that we see here in the States, only the kids who did it didn't have their school lives ruined by an MIP offense.

My two cents

[Commreman]

Originally Posted by stratovani

I really feel the need to rant about the events in the Chad Michael Horne thread, but I feel that thread would not be the appropriate place to do this. Perhaps this forum is also not an appropriate place, and if the members feel so, my apologies, but I have to say it.

Mankind has been drinking alcoholic beverages for thousands of years now, and the automobile has been around for over a hundred years. Therefore, it stands to reason that there is a huge accumulated body of knowledge in humanity's collective consciousness that says comsumption of large quantities of alcoholic beverages will impair a person's judgement and motor skills. It was true operating a chariot in Ancient Rome, operating a horse-drawn wagon in Medieval Europe, and is obviously (and painfully) true operating a vehicle in modern times. My question is thus: Is there a huge segment of the world's population that has just arrived from Alpha Centauri, that has no idea about this? Everybody knows that drinking and driving don't mix. Yet people still do it, oftentimes with disastrous, and fatal, consequences. Why? Why do people, in this day and age, still drink and drive? I don't understand. Is a segment of the population just stupid, or uncaring, or addicted? They can't be unknowledgable; I can't accept that they don't know the dangers.

I feel that telling someone not to drink and drive is pointless, because people know, yet some will do so anyways. And, as everyone knows, terrible consequences happen. So what is the answer? Tougher laws? Maybe. Raising awareness. I don't know if you can raise awareness any more than it is. I do think educating kids at a young age is very important. So what do you think?

Thank you for this.

The way to raise awareness is what we are doing here. It's too late for Chad. Perhaps my families' grieving and our sharing our collective frustrations here can help to save someone elses' life.

[stratovani]

Originally Posted by Commreman

Thank you for this.

The way to raise awareness is what we are doing here. It's too late for Chad. Perhaps my families' grieving and our sharing our collective frustrations here can help to save someone elses' life.

Thanks for the sentiments, Commreman. I guess if just one person reads this and thinks twice, then it was worth it. It just angers me to no end when I see a young person lose his life for no good reason. I was once young myself, and like young people everywhere I did stupid things too, and I thank God I never hurt anyone. But nowadays there's really no excuse (as if there ever was!) for drunk driving.

[Commreman]

Originally Posted by stratovani

Thanks for the sentiments, Commreman. I guess if just one person reads this and thinks twice, then it was worth it. It just angers me to no end when I see a young person lose his life for no good reason. I was once young myself, and like young people everywhere I did stupid things too, and I thank God I never hurt anyone. But nowadays there's really no excuse (as if there ever was!) for drunk driving.

It's funny that you use the "one person" analogy. In my community, I have been a travel soccer coach, cubmaster, active with the schools, and in the business community. I have often said that if you can have a positive impact on just one person, and they make the right decision because they might have thought about something you said or did, then it was worth all of the effort.

I appreciate what you have done here. You gave the rant that I wanted to , but am too dumbfounded to write.

[Bassmingo]

Whats the legal limit in the US? it always seems to me that americans legally can drink quite a bit and still get behind the wheel.

here in ireland, because we're a nation of idiots, bad drivers and drinkers, road deaths have spiralled out of control. to that end the legal limit is about one drink. if you're busted then you lose your licence for 1 year, there's really been a crackdown on drink driving, and more and more people are leaving the keys at home. its becoming socially unacceptable. i even feel bad driving the 1 mile to my house from the pub with one beer.

up to recently a cop could only breathalyse you if he suspected you were DUI, now he can do it randomly.

[Wilbyman]

Drinking and driving is a uniquely American form of bad behavior, with our penchant for driving anywhere we go and over consuming too much of everything.

[celticafro]

Originally Posted by Bassmingo

Whats the legal limit in the US? ... the legal limit is about one drink.

Same here. The breathalizer can read up to .08 blood alcohol level and after that you're done for.