End of the Twinkie?

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by slobake

Good post JMatt. I don't know if you saw my link. Richard Wolff is an economist with an interesting take on things. I haven't read his book yet but I did hear the entire talk from this link on the radio. This is just a little taste of his view of things.

http://www.capitalismhitsthefan.com/

I will check it out in the AM!

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Haha, not only is it one of the longest posts I have ever seen, but it also has to be the most quoted too. Everyone seems to need to quote the entire thing over and over. Sure makes it fun to scroll through the thread on my Droid3.

-Mike

Sorry, Mike

[Ziltoid]

I'm gonna love and tolerate the **** out of you!

[MakiSupaStar]

Inside perspective.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/...ostess-Bankery

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by slobake

Good post JMatt. I don't know if you saw my link. Richard Wolff is an economist with an interesting take on things. I haven't read his book yet but I did hear the entire talk from this link on the radio. This is just a little taste of his view of things.

http://www.capitalismhitsthefan.com/

He seems to do a great job tying everything together. I think one of the biggest issues the middle class is facing right now is our own historical ignorance. Like Richard Wolf was saying, if you take a historical approach to this situation you begin to realize just how much the American middle class has been getting screwed over by big business over the past several decades. The real kicker for me, as a person still in school, is that I get to talk to other people in school and I get to learn what their interests are. It seems that people in my age bracket, as a whole, do not enjoy history and do not see any real benefit to studying it academically. I think this trend is really beginning to bite us in the butt.

[VitalSigns]

I'm starting to really enjoy this thread

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

It seems that people in my age bracket, as a whole, do not enjoy history and do not see any real benefit to studying it academically. I think this trend is really beginning to bite us in the butt.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that there is a very large anti-intellectual sentiment in America. I only say that anecdotally, but I do know that some people have studied it empirically.

[sneha1965]

Originally Posted by tastybasslines

Talk about "get off my lawn"...geez

Oooops! I just realized I had written "I hope the employees are unable to find work soon." I meant to say I hope they're able to find work soon.

[SBsoundguy]

Originally Posted by sneha1965

Oooops! I just realized I had written "I hope the employees are unable to find work soon." I meant to say I hope they're able to find work soon.

LOL

I was thinking that, that was a cruel thing to say.

[sneha1965]

Proof reading can go a long way.

Now I see why I was getting the responses I was getting.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by sneha1965

Oooops! I just realized I had written "I hope the employees are unable to find work soon." I meant to say I hope they're able to find work soon.

Ha! I was wondering, that seemed pretty damned harsh, especially for a generally laid-back poster like you.

[sneha1965]

Total mistake. I've been laid off before and would never wish that for anyone.

[LiquidMidnight]

I know it really confused me. I thought that you were so anti-junk food that you thought that the employees were bad people and deserved to be laid-off for a long time.

[C.Linton]

It's not that hard to believe with some people (although it's only a matter of a typo in this case) When the company that produced the Kingdoms of Amalur video game went under, there were a couple of people on the official forums who basically said the people who lost their jobs deserved it because the company didn't produce a patch for the game in a timely manner (in other words , fast enough to suit them). In other words, screw the couple of hundred families that have no income, I can't play my game, and it's their fault.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

Inside perspective.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/...ostess-Bankery

Very interesting.

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

Unfortunately, it seems to me that there is a very large anti-intellectual sentiment in America. I only say that anecdotally, but I do know that some people have studied it empirically.

Agreed. I think another issue we're beginning to see is how quickly we, as a society, tend to have knee jerk reactions to things. I know when this story first hit there were a number of people coming out and saying how bad unions were and that they were destroying American jobs. Well, after several days have passed and more information has come out it seems very clear to me that the union did nothing wrong and that the demise of the company was completely in the hands of the CEOs and other execs.

[Indiana Mike]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Very interesting.



Agreed. I think another issue we're beginning to see is how quickly we, as a society, tend to have knee jerk reactions to things. I know when this story first hit there were a number of people coming out and saying how bad unions were and that they were destroying American jobs. Well, after several days have passed and more information has come out it seems very clear to me that the union did nothing wrong and that the demise of the company was completely in the hands of the CEOs and other execs.

The CEOs and execs want all of us to blame unions ....and they are succeeding in the destruction of organized labor .

Were slowly going back to pre 1930.

Here's one example of labor regressing to prior standards

Get ready for 7 day work weeks ...ita already happening here . Factorys give 2 weeks paid vacation, if you want a day off it has to be an approved vacation day . Otherwise you work 7 days a week every day of the year ,minus about 5 holidays . I know of two places currently doing this . And everybody in middle management thinking they are immune ,,,their coming after you next.

be careful what you wish for , you just might get it .

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Haha, not only is it one of the longest posts I have ever seen, but it also has to be the most quoted too. Everyone seems to need to quote the entire thing over and over. Sure makes it fun to scroll through the thread on my Droid3.

-Mike

Ha ha. I won't quote all of his, just yours.

Having worked for a unionized company that was run by bankers that eventually bankrupted the company (Delta, Leo Mullin) I don't disagree with most of what jmatt says but I think it's not quite that simple (if a post that long could be considered simple).

I don't claim to know it all but I'll spit out some random thoughts:

I don't think there is a war on the middle class.
The middle class has demanded cheaper and cheaper products.
There has always been a sub-class in the US that helps the middle class (slaves, Chinese immigrants, illegal/legal immigrants, third world manufacturing). IMO the middle class can be every bit as greedy and self serving as the "banksters".
The middle class wants an upper class lifestyle and has borrowed its way to get there.
Government has a role but often makes things worse.
The dollar continues to lose value. We accept inflation as if it should always be that way.
You can make a good living and move out of the middle class if you are willing to work hard and take risks.
Legit, honest business people that run companies and provide a place for others to make a living are often lumped in with the big biz bad boys that everyone loves to hate.
No one is obligated to provide anyone else with a job that pays a "living wage" or otherwise.
If I've made enough money to pay somebody to empty my garbage cans I ought to be able to pay them what the job is worth. It's a job a child could do and should be able to do. A grown man shouldn't expect to live off of it and support his family.
Fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same, it means you get what you deserve.

One last point--Automation and technology have eliminated the need for workers of, shall we say, a low skill set. As a textile engineering student in the 80's I sat in class listening to a professor telling us how much faster and cheaper the machines were making fabric and how it required fewer and fewer workers. I asked him who was going to buy all the fabric if nobody had a job to make money to buy it. He looked at me like I was an idiot. Maybe he was right.

The textile industry has all but disappeared in the US. Any remaining is highly automated. But we middle class folks do like our $10 dollar shirts.

[LiquidMidnight]

Seems that Twinkies are already being offered at extrodinarily high prices on Ebay and such. In other words, the vintage Twinkie market seems to be pretty similar to the vintage instrument market.

[MJ5150]

I wonder what will happen to these....



-Mike

[LiquidMidnight]

Some interesting thoughts, nut. I have a few comments.

Originally Posted by nutdog

The middle class has demanded cheaper and cheaper products.

Very true! As a consumer, I always try to look for the best deal. But I won't lie: I often feel a little twinge of guilt buying a shirt for a few bucks, knowing that it's a few bucks because it was sewn by some 14 year old in a sweatshop.

There has always been a sub-class in the US that helps the middle class (slaves, Chinese immigrants, illegal/legal immigrants, third world manufacturing).

Structural-functionalism, FTW...I guess.

The middle class wants an upper class lifestyle and has borrowed its way to get there.

I remember being a young kid and looking around at some of my nieghbors. They drove newer cars than my family and had bigger homes. I thought that they had more money than us. When I got older, I realized that they didn't necessarily make more money than us. They were just in debt.

Legit, honest business people that run companies and provide a place for others to make a living are often lumped in with the big biz bad boys that everyone loves to hate.

True dat.

A grown man shouldn't expect to live off of it and support his family.

Why not?

Fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same, it means you get what you deserve.

Problematic considering that the world isn't a meritocracy, and as much as the Rand-loving crowd doesn't want to hear it: capitalism isn't a meritocracy either (unless you want to engage in an unfalsifiable tautology on the matter).

[A-Step-Towards]

Phew boring.

I went to 6 stores today , there totally gone. There are a ton of twinkies on ebay. I dont like them , but I will miss the cup cakes.