This is England / This is England 86'

[blendermassacre]

Just finished the first one, hankering for the second. Any of you guys seen the movie / tv show? Not really looking to start a racial skinhead related debate, but are there any skinheads here?

[Linas]

Never saw the show, but did watch the movie which was quite good. What network is it on?

[blendermassacre]

channel 4 in the UK. It's a bit hard to find here in the states.

[steamthief]

I stumbled upon the movie one night on IFC about 1:30. I thought it was very well done. The psychology involved with the recruiting of a pre-teen into a gang seems to transcend national origin and/or race.

[pedroims]

I did watch the movie, very good movie, I have been living in US for the last five years and have never seen any skinhead. Another excellent gang movie is : Sin Nombre ( Without Name ) you can find it at Netflix.

[EdHunter]

I saw the series and loved it. I must say though, it got a little awkward watching it with my parents...

[sonic assassin]

i saw the movie. cute. didnt really get what people wanted me to get out of it. didnt really make the "skinhead" culture make sense to me. all ive ever seen in my LIFE is the negative turn on the movement. and i understand whole heartedly that its not the case with everyone. im straight edge and have to live down what the courage crew does every day. but i still dont understand WHY skinheads exist? what is this movement about? what is positive there? how did it turn into neo-nazi-ism? i was told that (by some skinhead) that this movie would change my mind on the entire culture. and it didnt change a think.

sucks about poor milky though. he didnt have that coming. and the mom needs to cut off that brian may hair. ew.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I know plenty of skins, they are the most anti-racist bunch you'll ever find. This is true for most skinheads, it's just a pity that it always seems to be a focus on the neo-nazi skins.

I saw the film and have to admit, I thought it was gash. Thought Romper Stomper and American History X were far better films about racist skinheads.

Sonic Assasin, Skins are a lot like most groupings, ie sXe etc., it's about belonging and in this case being with people of similar open mindedness (generally) and musical tastes.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Sonic Assasin, Skins are a lot like most groupings, ie sXe etc., it's about belonging and in this case being with people of similar open mindedness (generally) and musical tastes.

thats the part i dont get. straight edge folk bond over their extremely unpopular but positive view points. they stick together because they get along well because of said views. occasionally music is made.

i have groups of friends that bond over cartoons, professional wrestling and video games. we partake in those things together.

skinheads.. i never know what they are about. other than looking ridiculous and rambling on about being working class (like the majority of adult humans on earth). what do they believe in? what are they striving for? whats the point? no one has ever been able to answer that for me.

other than the bad bunch bonding over hatred and general bigotry, the only thing i can ever decide they like about each other is their clothes.

all the while im trying to ignore the fact that all of the encounters ive had with "skinheads" werent positive. namely the drunk guy at a punk show in a tiny venue (coffee shop) pushing people around, kicking ME in the chest, and flipping a little girl out of her seat and sending her head flying into the edge of a table. the same guy that was hassling us after we left to get away from him. only to mockingly walk after us mumbling something about the 4 skins while his girlfriend tries to calm him down. "wont apologize for what ive done.." something or another.

and the worst part? his friend (fellow skinhead) apologizing to us for his idiot friend, but making sure to state that if i put that drunk moron's head through a window, he and his friends would have jumped me for being right.

i wasnt in the "mosh pit" so i was to be bothered? i was on stage for a good part of the set because it was my friends band. they covered the unseen, i was right up there. so i got pushed around and kicked in the chest, threatened with being jumped, and my chick friend got a minor concussion for sitting down at a punk show.. in a coffee shop.

so i BEG of everyone, PLEASE make sense of this culture and find me proof that there is something positive in it. ive tried and failed at doing so myself, only to run into guys like that. i dont want to perpetuate a stereotype, but so far its all i have to go on.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

thats the part i dont get. straight edge folk bond over their extremely unpopular but positive view points. they stick together because they get along well because of said views. occasionally music is made.

I'm on the flip side here, I fit with what straight edge folk do, but I don't bond with them because the majority I've met are preachy d-bags. Straight Edge really doesn't have any more substance than any other musical following.

Skins, Goths, Punks, Mods, Rude Boys etc etc

When it comes down to it, there isn't really a huge deal to any of them, yet they are/were pretty large.

The part about looking rediculous could really be applied to any of the groups!

[THIRSTYGUMS]

great film, wee Thomas thurgoose is a definite future talent! havent seen the England '86 yet but ill grab the dvd

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

I'm on the flip side here, I fit with what straight edge folk do, but I don't bond with them because the majority I've met are preachy d-bags. Straight Edge really doesn't have any more substance than any other musical following

lets avoid this old chestnut again. i get it.. you dont like what my people are about.

im trying to understand a subculture that apparently SHOULDNT be a subculture, just a look that gets turned into a gang.

no one can make it make sense to me. mostly because they dont try.

[blendermassacre]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

lets avoid this old chestnut again. i get it.. you dont like what my people are about.

im trying to understand a subculture that apparently SHOULDNT be a subculture, just a look that gets turned into a gang.

no one can make it make sense to me. mostly because they dont try.

I think what he's saying is "what's the difference?" What makes skinheads a gang, but straight edge kids a culture? Also straight edge kids have been some of the most senselessly violent people I've ever seen, while all of the skins I've met are very nice.

[Kawai-chang]

From what I recall, the "skinhead" haircut was for purely fighting purposes, so noone could grab your hair. Same with the tight jeans, t-shirts, and Doc Marten's.

As to the subculture, no clue.

[invader3k]

Saw the movie on IFC a couple years back. Pretty good film.

I hadn't realized they made a spin off series. Anyone know if there's a way to watch the episodes online? Thanks.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

lets avoid this old chestnut again. i get it.. you dont like what my people are about.

im trying to understand a subculture that apparently SHOULDNT be a subculture, just a look that gets turned into a gang.

no one can make it make sense to me. mostly because they dont try.

What are your people about?

I don't drink
I don't smoke
I don't do drugs
I'm not promiscuous
I listen to punk & hardcore
Some of my favourite bands are sXe; Gorilla Biscuits, 7 Seconds, Slapshot, Chain of Strength, Judge, Champion...

So exactly what are you meaning when you say "I don't like what you're about"? Just because I don't brand myself as 'edge and draw X's on my hands (tho I did spend long enough shaking that stigma)?

You say they aren't trying, but when it comes down to it, there really isn't any difference in depth between what Skins or sXe kids are as subcultures.

As stated before, it (for the most part) isn't anything more than a look, a taste in music and an open minded belief with a more carefree attitude.

Originally Posted by blendermassacre

I think what he's saying is "what's the difference?" What makes skinheads a gang, but straight edge kids a culture? Also straight edge kids have been some of the most senselessly violent people I've ever seen, while all of the skins I've met are very nice.

Bingo, exactly what I was getting at.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Kawai-chang

From what I recall, the "skinhead" haircut was for purely fighting purposes, so noone could grab your hair. Same with the tight jeans, t-shirts, and Doc Marten's.

As to the subculture, no clue.

Considering standard (and most) Doc Martens aren't toe capped and have relatively soft soles (softer than most boots), I can't see them being all that great for fightin'

[steamthief]

Grippy soles for traction on asphalt.

[Anthbass]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

thats the part i dont get. straight edge folk bond over their extremely unpopular but positive view points. they stick together because they get along well because of said views. occasionally music is made.

Most subcultures bond through common ideals, values, and as you mention, view points. Whether the overarching ideologies that both norm and define a subculture are positive, remains subjective.


skinheads.. i never know what they are about. other than looking ridiculous and rambling on about being working class (like the majority of adult humans on earth). what do they believe in? what are they striving for? whats the point? no one has ever been able to answer that for me. other than the bad bunch bonding over hatred and general bigotry, the only thing i can ever decide they like about each other is their clothes.

If you are really interested in knowing the answers to your above questions, some rudimentary research would be a good starting point. Your comments about belief, bonding, and 'striving' conflate commonly-held beliefs that have arisen out of tenets of natural selection, being that evolution (here applied to cultures/subcultures) somehow implies a direction of movement that is progressive, i.e., 'We are improving, and continue to do so'. This is not necessarily the case, and is in no way is a prerequisite for the building or maintaining of a social movement or subculture. Movements have existed (and continue to exist), predicated on what would appear to those etic (peripheral) to the situation, as flimsy or even whimsical. For example, there exists a subculture of persons who fetish on sneezing. No implied evolutionary trajectory there: one simply needs to experience physical arousal upon hearing a sneeze, and presto! you meet the requirements for group membership. As for the 'point' of skinhead, straightedge, Rasta, vegan, pro-life, and any other subculture, you've essentially answered your own question: people are social animals at some level, and we seek like-mindedness in order to belong and to benefit from the protection and reassurance of group membership.

so i BEG of everyone, PLEASE make sense of this culture and find me proof that there is something positive in it. ive tried and failed at doing so myself, only to run into guys like that. i dont want to perpetuate a stereotype, but so far its all i have to go on.

Only you can make sense of the subcultures encountered, but some rudimentary awareness would serve you well when making value judgments. Do some research, ask questions without negative implications, and talk to people outside and beyond your peer groups. Knowledge is your friend.