Few americans take immigrants jobs

[sandmangeck]

Few Americans take immigrants' jobs in Alabama - Yahoo! News

Proving what I've thought all along.
Try to keep politics out of it.

[macaroni tony]

What else is new?

[Relic]

It's proves nothing other than the fact that it will take people time to change their thought process.
That's like saying someone is going to fail high school because they failed their first test in freshman year. You can't prove ANY thing like this either way until there's a long-term observation.
Granted I DO agree that most will feel such jobs are somehow beneath them, but if the economy stays in the gutter? I think you'll see some shifting going on for sure.

Here in NJ, my son and all of his friends were DYING to get summer jobs to the extent of going to every single local farm and asking. No luck, they all had a surplus of people

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Relic

You can't prove ANY thing like this either way until there's a long-term observation.

Yeah, but there HAS been long term observation. Agricultural worker shortage is an ongoing multi-year problem.

[sandmangeck]

Originally Posted by Relic

It's proves nothing other than the fact that it will take people time to change their thought process.

I can agree with that. Why would people do back breaking labor, when you can make 35 dollars less a week for nothing.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Yeah, but there HAS been long term observation. Agricultural worker shortage is an ongoing multi-year problem.

I guess so....I'm just not sold on the fact that Americans will flat out refuse to do such jobs, period.
Looking at my son and his cronies who have tried for the past few summers to get jobs, especially at some of the local farms I think that there will be a slow change as people realize that the job market's not all unicorns and rainbows...

Originally Posted by sandmangeck

I can agree with that. Why would people do back breaking labor, when you can make 35 dollars less a week for nothing.

True.

It's not that I disagree with the article per se, it's rather that I think that changing years and years of mental conditioning at what constitutes "success" here is going to take time to undo.

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by sandmangeck

Try to keep politics out of it.

Good luck with that.

[MakiSupaStar]

One of two things will happen. Either employers will start hiring people for a fair wage, or technology will fill the void. This might possibly translate to higher costs for things like food. But if you've got back breaking work that pays 6 bucks an hour, and no one shows up until you raise the wage to 10 bucks an hour, then this is more indicative of a fair wage. There might also be an adjustment period. But if a person can make more money collecting unemployment, then the wage of the job, and subsequently the price of the product needs to go up. Although, I admit this is a little simplistic.

[Bloodhammer]

Wow I'm so surprised.

[MakiSupaStar]

Also, are we talking about illegal immigrants, or immigrants that are here legally on work visas, or legal residency? The article title insinuates that these jobs somehow 'belong' to immigrants, and I wanted to make sure we all knew what we were talking about here. Because one is a protected group with protected wages, and the other is not. If an employer gets used to paying people less than what has been legally prescribed as a minimum, then this employer has a major flaw in their business model in regards to their real cost for labor. They may need to make adjustments to this model.

[dlenaghan]

I actually think a lot of Americans would be willing to apprentice for skilled labor positions, whether it's construction and contracting, or textiles, or carpentry. Working for others is one thing, but any of those positions, as well as others I haven't mentioned, feeds into real art when you've got the skills and the passion: where would bass luthiers be if not for basic carpentry?

I guess I just feel like there are a lot of positions that are undervalued because they produce material goods, but I feel like there's a small movement towards this sort of hand-crafted good. (I'm trying to be optimistic.. but there is a reason why my tag had me listed as living in Seoul: I couldn't find work in Seattle, but I did give being a bronze foundry worker a good go, though fine art and recessions rarely go hand in hand.. the guy who ended up welding submarine bulkheads did far better than I did in that department.)

[stratovani]

I've been saying this for years now. We get rid of the illegals and no one will be left to work the fields. In a sense they've become our modern-day slaves, offensive as it may sound to some. The average American is incapable of backbreaking labor in the hot sun for 12 hours a day, since lunch at McD's and lifting brewskis all day is not exactly condusive to staying in shape, unless it's the shape of a potato! A guest-worker program is probably what's needed here.

[WalterBush]

What Relic Said.

Here in Yuma (the lettuce capital of the world, btw, and home to an amazing number of crops) we've got an immigrant labor force that does about 90% of the agricultural work to be had. Nearly all of it is legal, with visa-carrying Mexican nationals and the local Hispanic population filling out most of the labor positions. Lots of workers migrate across multiple states over the course of a year, depending on where the harvest work is at.

They pay a pretty good wage out here, actually, with piecework positions averaging out at $10-$15 an hour over a 10-hour workday, depending on crop. About ten years ago, we started seeing Hondas and such parked alongside the busses that transport workers to the fields along the highway. Now, most families carpool and the highway shoulders are packed with people who drive their own vehicles. Mexican license plates are not an uncommon sight around town, and the farming corporations cooperate with Border Patrol regarding background checks, etc. There are plenty of people willing to work legally, and no one really wants to rock the boat with a good thing going, so there's not much of an illegal immigrant problem despite proximity to the border. No (at least, hardly any) safe houses, etc in town; people who immigrated legally a generation ago don't want to house their shiftless cousin Pedro or whoever and risk losing their house or whatnot. Day visas are easy to get, and lots of workers have houses right across the border, and work here to get an American wage.

All that's to say, it's not such a bad gig, though the work is very labor intensive. There's a law in Arizona that says preferential hiring has to be given to Arizona citizens over legal non-citizens, and heavy fines and jail time for anyone hiring illegals. So, an awful lot of people here at some point get the idea that they'd like to do field work when times are tough or they get fired from a previous job.

They don't last long, even folks of Hispanic descent who've lived in America their whole lives. It's a cultural thing, and I mean agricultural culture, not racial. People leave because they don't fit in, and a lot of the field workers like it that way. It's hard to keep motivated at a labor-intensive job when you and your coworkers have almost nothing in common. I don't think this is likely to change until there's a shift in mindset, both in the regular population here and in the existing, experienced fieldhands.

There's also the frustration of a learning curve. They pay piecework per bag picked (or area harvested, in the case of wheat, grain, and feed harvests), and it can be tough to learn to work as fast as the more experienced hands. Couple this with your coworkers not getting along or being able to relate with you, add some jearing and (hopefully) good-natured insults about a white guy's ability to work, and it's a recipe for discouragement. Laziness isn't the totality behind the lack of, um, racial diversity in the work force, and "it's a job Americans just won't do" is an out-and-out lie, and lazy journalism.

As the economy gets worse, and jobs are harder to get, I'm willing to bet that the next few harvest seasons see an increase in local population hitting the fields. Like I said, it's not that Americans are incapable of doing this work, just that for the last couple of decades there have been easier ways to make the same amount of money, with a lot more upward mobility. Take the "easier" jobs away, and people WILL work at what's available.

[MatticusMania]

My first job was working as a cook at a Burger King. It paid minimum wage and after a year and a half I got a raise of $0.10. Ten cents. So its no surprise that I accepted a job that paid $9.25 to start and left the immigrants (and most of them were, honestly) behind to make Whoppers while I moved on up and ate said Whoppers for lunch.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by WalterBush

What Relic Said.

Here in Yuma (the lettuce capital of the world, btw, and home to an amazing number of crops) we've got an immigrant labor force that does about 90% of the agricultural work to be had. Nearly all of it is legal, with visa-carrying Mexican nationals and the local Hispanic population filling out most of the labor positions. Lots of workers migrate across multiple states over the course of a year, depending on where the harvest work is at.

They pay a pretty good wage out here, actually, with piecework positions averaging out at $10-$15 an hour over a 10-hour workday, depending on crop. About ten years ago, we started seeing Hondas and such parked alongside the busses that transport workers to the fields along the highway. Now, most families carpool and the highway shoulders are packed with people who drive their own vehicles. Mexican license plates are not an uncommon sight around town, and the farming corporations cooperate with Border Patrol regarding background checks, etc. There are plenty of people willing to work legally, and no one really wants to rock the boat with a good thing going, so there's not much of an illegal immigrant problem despite proximity to the border. No (at least, hardly any) safe houses, etc in town; people who immigrated legally a generation ago don't want to house their shiftless cousin Pedro or whoever and risk losing their house or whatnot. Day visas are easy to get, and lots of workers have houses right across the border, and work here to get an American wage.

All that's to say, it's not such a bad gig, though the work is very labor intensive. There's a law in Arizona that says preferential hiring has to be given to Arizona citizens over legal non-citizens, and heavy fines and jail time for anyone hiring illegals. So, an awful lot of people here at some point get the idea that they'd like to do field work when times are tough or they get fired from a previous job.

They don't last long, even folks of Hispanic descent who've lived in America their whole lives. It's a cultural thing, and I mean agricultural culture, not racial. People leave because they don't fit in, and a lot of the field workers like it that way. It's hard to keep motivated at a labor-intensive job when you and your coworkers have almost nothing in common. I don't think this is likely to change until there's a shift in mindset, both in the regular population here and in the existing, experienced fieldhands.

There's also the frustration of a learning curve. They pay piecework per bag picked (or area harvested, in the case of wheat, grain, and feed harvests), and it can be tough to learn to work as fast as the more experienced hands. Couple this with your coworkers not getting along or being able to relate with you, add some jearing and (hopefully) good-natured insults about a white guy's ability to work, and it's a recipe for discouragement. Laziness isn't the totality behind the lack of, um, racial diversity in the work force, and "it's a job Americans just won't do" is an out-and-out lie, and lazy journalism.

As the economy gets worse, and jobs are harder to get, I'm willing to bet that the next few harvest seasons see an increase in local population hitting the fields. Like I said, it's not that Americans are incapable of doing this work, just that for the last couple of decades there have been easier ways to make the same amount of money, with a lot more upward mobility. Take the "easier" jobs away, and people WILL work at what's available.

Great post. I agree totally. I would also add that what you're going to see is a breakdown of large farms in favor of smaller, more locally run crops being harvested by local communities.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by sandmangeck

I can agree with that. Why would people do back breaking labor, when you can make 35 dollars less a week for nothing.

And that's the problem. Farm owners are willing to up what they pay American workers, but it's still not enough to satisfy the intensity of the work that is done - especially when there are other alternatives that pay 'better' (be it in hours, intensity of work, or $$$) than being a farm hand.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

Also, are we talking about illegal immigrants, or immigrants that are here legally on work visas, or legal residency?

All of the above actually.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

One of two things will happen. Either employers will start hiring people for a fair wage, or technology will fill the void. This might possibly translate to higher costs for things like food. But if you've got back breaking work that pays 6 bucks an hour, and no one shows up until you raise the wage to 10 bucks an hour, then this is more indicative of a fair wage. There might also be an adjustment period. But if a person can make more money collecting unemployment, then the wage of the job, and subsequently the price of the product needs to go up. Although, I admit this is a little simplistic.

Agreed. Undercutting the market isn't sustainable without a consistent underclass willing to tolerate it. Exploiting American citizens is much more difficult (read: expensive) than foreigners.

Produce costs will increase as fair wages are established, but realistically produce prices were being always offset by the increased costs associated with supporting the immigrant community. You're always paying for "cheap" somewhere.

[kserg]

They are selling it wrong.

Contract jenny craig. "we'll pay your fat@55 to loose weight."

Done.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by kserg

They are selling it wrong.

Contract jenny craig. "we'll pay your fat@55 to loose weight."

Done.

Hahahaha. Perfect.