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Old 12-10-2007, 11:31 PM
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Firsthand account of Omaha mall shooting... good thing its a "gun free zone"

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http://joemerchant24.blogspot.com/20...-shooting.html

Firsthand account of the Von Maur shooting

The Shack has the privilege of being able to talk with one of the witnesses from the third floor of the Von Maur store at Westroads Mall in Omaha.

On the condition of anonymity, he has agreed to tell his account of what happened. He will only be identified by the moniker NW.

I was given the first draft of this account Thursday morning, 12/6/07. The only changes that have been made were mostly grammatical and organizational. NW's account has not changed. He has opted to leave any inaccuracies (such as the gun identification) as it was originally written in order to properly show how the mind works in this condition.

I have agreed to post his story account as is, with only minor edits for spelling and grammar. The bulk of this was written about 14 hours after the event occurred. There is an update at the end.

His story presents an interesting issue for CCW holders in such a situation: Shoot or no shoot. Hide or flee. Help or don’t help.

Please look at the post after this account as I have put up a practice drill (The Von Maur Drill) that is designed based on this man’s scenario.

With that, I now turn the blog over to NW.

The shooting
I took a later lunch that day because I had a noon phone meeting with a company out of New York, apparently we’re not on the same lunch schedule. I also planned to take a one-hour lunch that day, instead of a 30-minute lunch, so I could go to Van Maur and pick up some gifts for my wife. We were both there on the evening of Dec 03 with my 1-year-old daughter, and my wife tried on some coats and showed me some bath robes she liked, so I knew exactly what I was going for that day.

I asked a co-worker (named K for this story) for directions to Van Maur from my place of business. as she knew a faster route that would get me there quicker.

I left work around 1:15 to 1:20 and arrived at the front doors of Van Maur at 1:35 (shooting -7), I remember specifically looking at my watch as walked in. I came in the south entrance to Van Maur, right by the elevators.

I proceeded to 2nd floor using the escalator around 1:36 (shooting -6 minutes). I soon picked up a coat that my wife liked. I spent a couple

minutes there because I was still not completely sure about picking

the white coat or black coat. I checked my watch and realized time was

running out, so I picked the white one. This was about 1:39 (shooting

-3).


Then I again took the escalator to the third floor.I went over to the bath robes near the bra section, which is by

customer service. I was standing close to the north wall, by the east

corner. I walked around the robes a bit to see if there were any last

minute changes about what I wanted to get, then I proceeded to the

rack of robes that my wife had expressed interest in.


At this point I don't have a time line, but the events unfolded follows:

I heard gunshots, about 8. I knew exactly what they were, but my brain

didn't want me to believe it.


I looked towards the escalators because it sounded like they came from

there. I could not place the direction the shots came from because I

was surrounded by 4 walls and standing nearly in a corner.


I stood there for maybe 8 seconds (time enough to change a magazine),

then I heard several more shots. Somehow, then I focused in on the

shooter. He was towards the south wall, in the east corner, maybe 30

degrees to my left. He was about 30 yards away. He was shooting

towards the west and I had a nice side view of him.






He was wearing what looked like a solid green sleeveless vest, and was

shooting a semi-automatic rifle. I could see sleeves of a shirt that did not match the vest. The vest did not look military or camouflage, but to me looked green.


To me, at the time, I thought the rifle might be an AR15. One thing I

noticed, it appeared that the empty shells were ejecting out of the

left side of the gun instead of the right, which doesn't make sense

and could of been an illusion. All I could see were mostly the black

parts of the gun. The stock of the gun was the black frame style,

instead of a wood stock.


The shooter had brown or black hair, and I remember it being cut quite

Short, but not buzzed. He had the gun up to his cheek and was shooting in rapid

succession doing quick maneuvers with the gun. At first, It went

through my mind that this guy was some sort of military and this was a

terrorist attack. I could see the shells ejecting from the gun.


The way he was walking and shooting, calmly, no yelling, made me think that there was more than one shooter and they were performing a "clean sweep". He was aiming down the barrel of the gun, and shooting rapidly.


At this point, I stared for nearly 5 seconds, until I turned and

ducked down and started running. I want to make note of this point in

time, as I will come back to it.


I was running towards the north wall and somehow making my way farther

towards the east wall at the same time, putting myself in the corner

even more. There were maybe five people who started walking fast

looking in the direction of the shooter. I am not sure if they could

see him or just heard the commotion. When they saw that I was running

like heck, others started running, too.


People were running into the dressing rooms. I got near the door and

decided that is not where I wanted to be. I ran west a few yards

uncertain of what to do or where to go. I was trapped. But then I

focused in on an emergency exit and ran out of it. The alarm sounded.

It was loud, but I think it was only an alarm attached to the door, not sure if it set the whole store alarms off, but they were loud shreiking alarms, not continuous, but a pulse type alarm.

I ended up in some gray hallway with a set of stairs and very little room to move side to side. I ran down one set of stairs to 2nd floor.

There was a door there and I almost went through it. But I heard more

gunshots that sounded like they were on the other side of the door. I

believe I turned and I jumped over the stair railing to the next landing, skipping

the stairs completely. I do not remember the impact, and I do not

remember if I jumped down a whole floor, or ran down the first half of

the stairs and jumped down the rest. I am not certain of this point due to the fear I felt at this point after hearing more gunshots I thought was on 2nd floor, confirming in my mind there were multiple shooters.

I ran down a small hallway and found a door to the outside, but it would not open. It was a double door with a push bar. At this point, I had to make a decision. Do I wait here or get out?

I didn’t know what or who was on the other side of the door, and but I decided to go for it because I was trapped at the end of a hallway with no where to go. I pushed the door hard and it still would not give, so I kicked the push bar and the door flung open.

I was now outside, on Van Maur’s loading dock on the east side, I looked to my right and there was a long trash can close to the wall. I jumped over a rail, off the dock between the garbage can and the wall. I ran along this until I came to the end of both the garbage can and wall. I then realized that I was still carrying the coat I was going to by my wife. For some reason, I decided to drop it, and probably ruined it.

Then I ran out into the parking lot, which is between the mall and the parking garage. I didn’t know what to do next. I tried to call 911 on my phone with no luck. I yelled to some guy to call 911. Then I asked him if he had a gun I could use. I was freaking out, and in reality probably would not have gone back in. However, I was worried about someone picking off people in the lot, or coming out charging with guns firing. I had no idea how many shooters were in there.

I borrowed a lady’s cell phone, and she was worried I was going to run off with it. But 911 was busy, so I knew people were probably called. It took FOREVER for the cops to get there, I estimated the time as10 minutes but the news says 6.

During this time I did not know what to do. I almost just went for my car and left, but I realized that couldn’t be right. It was like someone pulled a fire alarm at the store, so I thought about just leaving and let everyone else figure it out. I decided that was the wrong thing to do..

I walked around to the north side and saw all the cops loading up. I yelled to them, “I saw what is going on. The guy has an M-16 type gun. If you need information, I can give it or else I am outta here.” A police lieutenant pulled me aside and I ended up in a cop car.

Minutes later another witness joined me. She said she was right beside me on the 3rd floor before the shooting. We were both very shaken up. My lungs were burning because I nearly did a full sprint down 3 floors. The cold air hit my lungs hard.

I was later taken to J.C. Penney and interviewed. At first, the interviewer was taking notes, but when he realized how involved I was I had start over, this time with a tape recorder running

I was then escorted to my car and I stopped back by work. I arrived at work around 4pm, which means my interview ended around 3:30 – 3:45.


My feelings

When I heard the first round of gunshots, I knew what they were but didn’t want to believe it. I tried to think that they were balloons or fireworks. However, I definitely took a defensive stance ready to run.

When I saw the shooter, I stood there for nearly 5 seconds just watching.

Why?

First, he was firing 90 degrees away from me. The thing is, this image was nothing new to me. I see people shooting all the time at the range, on TV, in video games. But what my brain was having a hard time processing was that was Van Maur.

Now back to the point I referenced earlier.

Honestly, and as God as my witness, when I saw him shooting and as watched for a few seconds trying to figure out what he was going to do and what I should do, the thought that when through my mind was, “If I had a gun, I have a perfect shot.”

Yes, a perfect shot. I had a full side profile, I was close, and no one was visible behind him execept a wall. I had a clear shot during the second round of fire. I told this to every cop I came in contact with. The interviewer agreed.

When I realized that I had no gun, fear instantly struck me, along with anger, and severe panic.

I ran hard.

I did not think to try to help people, I just got out.

While I was running, I kept hearing shots. In my mind, I could see myself getting shot in the back, bullets ripping through me and blood spraying in front of me.

Interestingly, I was still able to make decisions. I knew the dressing room was a bad place. When I realized I was trapped in a corner, more fear set in and I almost went for the dressing room, but then I saw the emergency exit.

I instantly started second-guessing that decision as well. For all I knew, there were more shooters waiting for people to try to escape. But realizing that I was wide open to attack, I ran out the emergency door.

As I ran down the stairs, all kinds of thoughts started occurring. What if a shooter was coming up the stairs? What if one followed me down? Every decision I made was second-guessed, should I just stop or keep going?

I kept going, and due to luck, I was fine. There was only one shooter, and he did not set any boobytraps.

Luck.

God.

Luck.

That’s all. My decisions were fairly limited and all I could do is go where the doors and hallways took me.

After my interview, as I was being escorted by the cops to my car, I saw the nice, white coat still there by the garbage can. I pointed it out to my interviewer who was escorting me, hoping maybe he’d let me go pick it up to possibly save it. But, it was a lost cause. I would have gone back later and paid for it.

This part of the story may be removed later, but I will have it here for now.

I do not have a Concealed Handgun Permit. I have completed the training class, but I keep putting off applying for the permit because I think it is useless. In the places I would need a gun most, I am not allowed to have it. I will not be a person living in fear and not go to Van Maur because they don’t allow guns.

My point that Open Carry needs to be easier in Omaha, and places like Westroads need to take down their “no guns” signs.

If I had my gun deeply concealed, I wouldn’t have been able to draw it very fast. However, If I had open carried, I could of drawn instantly.

Either way though, I could have drawn and taken a clean shot. However, in both cases, regardless of the laws, I am not allowed to carry a gun at all in Westroads Mall. If the laws did not oppress my rights, I would carry a gun most places (except work). I would certainly have had it in the mall as mall shootings have been on my mind since the incident at a mall involving a shotgun back in February.

My wife is somewhat cautious about guns as is my sister-in-law. After this event, both are now pro-guns. In addition, I will never again be caught without a gun.

I later learned from the news that people were shot at customer service (to my right) and the children’s section (in front of me, off to the left). This means it was only luck this guy did not target me, as I was closer to him than some of the people he shot. I have a second chance at life.

What really irks my gut is that I was just there at Van Maur on Monday night with my wife and daughter. What if they were with me this time? Escape like I did would not of been possible.

I am very angry at the city of Omaha and the mall for their stupid laws that nearly cost me my life. The laws protected no one, and in my opinion, caused people to die.

Will I go to the media? Maybe. I can’t make a decision now because I am still shaken up. I got very little sleep last night. I need to let my head clear. Nothing I do right now is going to change the outcome and near brush with death.

Right now I have been practicing with my .40 S&W Beretta, replaying the situation in my mind.

I could have done it, no problem, no hesitation, no regrets. This was a test of my soul, and the results are in and I know them for certain.

I am going to go buy some “gear,” then go to the shooting range for some target practice.

My knnee hurts and my legs and lungs still burn. I cannot recall how high of jump I took, but I am going back to Van Maur to find out.
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Last edited by Armueller2001 : 12-11-2007 at 12:10 AM.
  #2  
Old 12-11-2007, 12:56 AM
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That's a very sobering read.

Quote:
My point that Open Carry needs to be easier in Omaha, and places like Westroads need to take down their “no guns” signs.
I've been thinking about this lately. I've done a bit of reading and it seems that Open Carry would be a lot better deterrent than Concealed. Does one need a permit to Open Carry in states that allow it? If so, is Open Carry harder to get than Concealed?
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Old 12-11-2007, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by OctoberMooN View Post
That's a very sobering read.



I've been thinking about this lately. I've done a bit of reading and it seems that Open Carry would be a lot better deterrent than Concealed. Does one need a permit to Open Carry in states that allow it? If so, is Open Carry harder to get than Concealed?
It really varies from state to state... the only problem with open carry is that anyone planning anything fishy that sees a gun on your hip is taking you out first. I'd rather not have anyone know.

California law - http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacode...050-12054.html

got it from www.handgunlaw.us
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Old 12-11-2007, 01:07 AM
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...anyone planning anything fishy that sees a gun on your hip is taking you out first...
That very thought crossed my mind as I was typing the post.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:06 AM
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There's a reason it's called concealed carry. It's somewhat of a deterrent since you never know who's going to be packing. Now if someone is hell-bent on starting trouble, it doesn't matter if you have the Army in there guarding the place. Personally, I'd rather have my little friend with me just in case.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:12 AM
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As part of the fallout from the Von Maur event, I think a lot of people in a lot of cities are going to get some sort of weapon for concealing or open carry. People are scared.

I don't wish to revisit my handgun logistics, but it's practically impossible to train a lot of people to be effective with a pistol in a scenario like this. A lot of CCWs are concealed very well, slows down the quick draw. Pointing a gun at a real person under stress is a lot different than target practice. Most of the good people on this earth will have a problem pointing a gun at someone. Sadly, some evil dudes won't even flinch.

I may be from Omaha, but this jerkoff isn't going to change my life.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:43 AM
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While i'll keep my views on gun laws to myself.

And have to agree, it is pretty incredible hearing what happened from someone with such detail.

Regardless of if he had had a gun or not, this is your very typical fight or flight response. Granted we'll never know what would happen if someone had a firearm and tried to take down the other guy, but there is a fairly high chance if the fled without a gun, they would have fled with the gun.

Just one of these moments of hindsight where deep down you knew you probably couldnt have made a difference, but "what if".

You also run the risk of hitting someone other than the shooter.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:54 AM
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Do you really think carrying a gun would have changed much? If it had been permitted you wouldnt think those shooters would have known that very well, and calculate everything they'd do according to the possibility of any shopper they see carrying a gun?

And what do you think would have happened then?
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:55 AM
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A private citizen with a concealed carry permitted weapon stopped the church shooter in Colorado. The only people he killed were in the parking lot.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by morf View Post
Do you really think carrying a gun would have changed much? If it had been permitted you wouldnt think those shooters would have known that very well, and calculate everything they'd do according to the possibility of any shopper they see carrying a gun?

And what do you think would have happened then?
I think that guy would have taken the shot and a few more mommies would have made it home safely that night.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:25 AM
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A private citizen with a concealed carry permitted weapon stopped the church shooter in Colorado. The only people he killed were in the parking lot.
Yeah, from what I've read she was a private citizen who was volunteering at the church as security. I've heard of churches whose members do that in other places as well.

bc
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:29 AM
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Unlikely IMHO. Seems to me that if a shooter knows people around him are carrying guns, he will be silent quick and effective. These people do not care about dying, it's what they expect after their massacre. They are dangerous but not idiots. They are usually very calculating about their final moments, and it seems to me the eventuality of the people around them carrying guns would only lead to more preparation and a better killing spree IMHO.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:29 AM
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A private citizen with a concealed carry permitted weapon stopped the church shooter in Colorado. The only people he killed were in the parking lot.
Whats to say those people werent the only ones he wanted to kill in the first place?
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:34 AM
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Unlikely IMHO. Seems to me that if a shooter knows people around him are carrying guns, he will be silent quick and effective. These people do not care about dying, it's what they expect after their massacre. They are dangerous but not idiots. They are usually very calculating about their final moments, and it seems to me the eventuality of the people around them carrying guns would only lead to more preparation and a better killing spree IMHO.
By your logic, the gun-toting general public are not idiots, either, and would have been better prepared to stop that guy from having such a 'successful' killing spree.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:35 AM
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According to the lady's account of what happened he was in the process of shooting up the church (not in the parking lot) and according to law enforcement officers he had over 1000 rounds of ammo and "hated all Christians". Somehow I don't think he was finished and I think the evidence supports that.

That lady is pretty amazing. From witness accounts she was just dead calm.

bc
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:40 AM
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By your logic, the gun-toting general public are not idiots, either, and would have been better prepared to stop that guy from having such a 'successful' killing spree.
There is no way to prepare for what comes down to your fight or flight response. You will either stay or you wont.

As ive said before, if there had been someone else there with a gun, whats to say they would have tried to take the guy down and not just run?

All the people who say "If i had been there, i would have stopped him" or whatnot, you will never know that, you have no way of knowing that unless you were a highly trained pro, but hell, even they can go by the flight response.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:41 AM
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Whats to say those people werent the only ones he wanted to kill in the first place?
He killed them in the parking lot, then proceeded to enter the church while shooting.

I don't think he was there to donate to the collection plate and get his free communion wafer.

Quote:
Assam described how the gunman, Matthew Murray, entered the east entrance of the church firing his rifle.

"There was chaos," Assam said, as parishioners ran away, "I will never forget the gunshots. They were so loud."

"I saw him coming through the doors" and took cover, Assam said. "I came out of cover and identified myself and engaged him and took him down."
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:42 AM
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According to the lady's account of what happened he was in the process of shooting up the church (not in the parking lot) and according to law enforcement officers he had over 1000 rounds of ammo and "hated all Christians". Somehow I don't think he was finished and I think the evidence supports that.

That lady is pretty amazing. From witness accounts she was just dead calm.

bc
While it is pretty incredible, that wont always be the case with what happens.

I bet she wasnt dead calm afterwards tho, i bet she was a bit of a wreck when the shock kicked in and she went "but he could of? i just, he could have? oh dear!"
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:43 AM
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There is no way to prepare for what comes down to your fight or flight response. You will either stay or you wont.

As ive said before, if there had been someone else there with a gun, whats to say they would have tried to take the guy down and not just run?

All the people who say "If i had been there, i would have stopped him" or whatnot, you will never know that, you have no way of knowing that unless you were a highly trained pro, but hell, even they can go by the flight response.
True. But, an armed citizen has a choice to fight or flee when facing that situation. An unarmed citizen doesn't have much choice but to flee.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:43 AM
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I think that guy would have taken the shot and a few more mommies would have made it home safely that night.
Exactly, the anti's can spin it all they want, but I bet he would have taken the shot. Private citizens who own firearms tend to practice a lot, enough so that if the brain does think to take the shot the muscles more than likely know how to do it. Over and over we see data suggesting that concealed carry works, and we hear the anti's come up with weird rationalizations against it.

Anyway, that was a very powerful read and I hope a person like him (with a permit, and armed) is around if my wife and kids are every in danger and I'm not there.
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