Food, Fat, Obesity and Airplanes - a question

[doublestop]

Hi all,

I have a question for US Talkbass members! Maybe you can clarify this for me? I live in the Netherlands, EU, I am a skinny 40 year old.

My question is about the controversy (so it appears) over food and fat 'policies'. Edit: I saw people (all very 'big') on CNN who said that the government should stay out of what they and their children eat, and that their children have the right to eat hamburgers and icecream at school). So, I understand from the newspapers that some Americans regard plans aimed at promoting healthy food as an unacceptable interference with personal liberties. "Please let me decide myself what I eat and drink".

Is there a widespread 'right to eat unhealthy ' feeling? Can someone explain this to me? Because I don't understand this. The USA has been years ahead of Europe in the fight against smoking and has a much stricter anti-alcohol policy than we have in Europe. So, why is the 'Fat Issue' so controversial in the USA?

When I watch US TV-series, and whenever I visit the USA (I travel a lot) I am always struck by the large amount of (serverely) overweight people. When I visit supermarkets in the USA, I see two things: 1) all the food is packed in very large quantities, everything is 'big' 2) at the checkout I see lots of magazines aimed at 'Getting Slimmer" (we don't have those here). Could there be a connection between 1) and 2)

Question 1: why is the 'food issue' so controversial, when it is clear that being overweight is not healthy AND when it is clear that most overweight people are not happy with their weight?


I once flew from Las Vegas to Houston, I was 'crammed' between a fat gut left and a fat woman on the right.......not a pleasant flight! When I see obese people on CNN who claim their 'rights' to fly, I think: I - as a skinny guy - have a right to travel comfortably as well!

Question 2. Is their attention for skinnier people and airplanes? I weigh 70 kilos (=154 lbs). When I bring 110 lbs of luggage, I have to pay extra to the airline company. But, a 264 lbs fat guy does not have to pay anything extra! And he takes MY space in the plane. I don't find this fair - am I being unreasonable here?

Thanks! I'd like to understand more of you fascinating country!

Edit: 'controversy' edited.

[Simo98]

Originally Posted by doublestop

Question 2. Is their attention for skinnier people and airplanes? I weigh 70 kilos (=154 lbs). When I bring 110 lbs of luggage, I have to pay extra to the airline company. But, a 264 lbs fat guy does not have to pay anything extra! And he takes MY space in the plane. I don't find this fair - am I being unreasonable here?

Thanks! I'd like to understand more of you fascinating country!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP29AJ931Uk

[Number27]

i dunno... there is a very big difference between restrictions on luxury items like alcohol and cigarettes and food. too be honest i haven't heard of any controversies regarding "food policies". it just seems like you find more and more places moving to push healthier products/menus, probably mostly due to public demand. places like macdonalds have had to rethink alot of their menu in light of a lot of recent negative publicity (due to movies/documentaries as well as numerous articles). at least that's how it seems from my perspective.

as far as your question about airlines.. i'm right with you on that one: it's not fair. i actually thought at one point that the airlines were doing a thing where people over a certain weight limit had to buy a second seat... but maybe that was just silly rumors. i can imagine something like that causing a huge uproar from the obese people (in between naps), something about discrimination and civil liberties blah blah. bottom line: you want to "spill" into my seat on an airplane? fine, but you can't complain when i wear my "mad max" spiked elbow pads.

[ericw]

Originally Posted by Number27

i dunno... there is a very big difference between restrictions on luxury items like alcohol and cigarettes and food...

Food is only necessary to a point. Past that point (where I think an obese individuals consumption would fall) it is a luxury item.

[doublestop]

I was relating to this sort of articles

First lady Michelle Obama fights childhood obesity, sparks controversy. February 9

On the surface, it sounds like a good idea for the first lady to share her own experience with her two daughters when trying to focus other parents in America to make it a priority to prevent childhood obesity. But her comments sparked controversy from those who think she might be setting her daughters up for body image issues by telling the nation about their struggles with weight and unhealthy eating.

First lady Michelle Obama starts Let's Move campaign against childhood obesity

Tuesday afternoon, February 9, 2010, Ms Obama set forth her vision for leading the nation on the path to better health for its children. Her program is called Let's Move and it aims to get parents and the community involved in fighting the growing epidemic of childhood obesity. The major strategies Ms. Obama outlined have four components:

* To improve school nutrition and physical education classes and activities
* To encourage physical activity in youth and make sure community planning involves things that promote activity
* To make healthy food more available to the poor and to everyone
* To improve nutrition information on food packaging, making it more understandable to consumers

Critics have voiced concerns that these public comments might have a negative effect on the girls or might open them up to public criticism over their weight by unscrupulous media personalities.

With 25 million children in the U.S. now obese or overweight according to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), Ms. Obama's message is an urgent one that shouldn't be overshadowed by controversy over her earlier comments.

If I were to add one component to the strategies above. I would say: Make smaller portions!!!! When I come in the USA, I always "struggle" with the giant portions of food that you guys have! Softdrinks comes in "gallon sized" glasses, a 'starter' in a restaurant can be a super sized 'salad' with nuts, bacon, cream and cheese, Icecreams are giant size..... And all that sugar, why is that needed? Does salad have to be sweetened with maple syrup? Fresh fruit is very tasty, why put syrup on it?? And why is there so much sugar in the bread ?

[bmc]

Question 1: why is the 'food issue' so controversial, when it is clear that being overweight is not healthy AND when it is clear that most overweight people are not happy with their weight?

ANSWER The USA leads the world in obesity. The statistics are alarming. Diet and lifestyle contribute. Love for processed food and fast food contribute. I don't agree that overweight people are unhappy. Shoving cheesburgers in youir cob can put a smile on your face.


Question 2. Is their attention for skinnier people and airplanes?
ANSWER: There are a number of US carriers that have adopted double seat policy for orca sized people. The rolls of flesh tend to spill into seats, making it either very uncomfrtable for passengers or making an airline unable to sell the seat. Should they pay twice? Absolutely.

[playinpearls]

I would assume its kinda like smoking was in the 60's and 70's. People wanted to smoke and if you didn't like it, you could shove something in your pie-hole and get on with your life. Now its food. Maybe its all the people that were told to shove something in their pie-hole just doing as they were told years ago by smokers....

I totally aggree that obese people should pay more for flights. Especially since obesity is on the rise...You are correct, everyone gets charged for extra luggage weight! UPS charges more for heavy packages! Whats the difference? the weight is connected to you instead of in a box? If thats the case, I'm just gonna buy really large cargo pants and pack everything on me so i dont have to get charged for extra luggage... Maybe i'll bring a hover round to make it easier...

Maybe airlines should just start charging everyone by the pound instead of by the seat... $2.13 a pound per flight!

[superjaay]

I don't mean to butt in on your philosophical debate, but as an overweight person that tries diligently to live a healthy lifestyle I will say this, I only hope that people are as kind in dealing with your particular shortcomings. I make no excuses for my physical condition, but I am uncomfortable in airplane seats. I am 6 foot 3 inches and around 300 lbs. I play alot of basketball, walk 2 miles several times a week in my neighborhood, but alas I am still obese. It shouldn't matter whether you individual battle you face is weight, cancer, bad breath, not having a high IQ, or just an obnoxious egocentric personality, everyone deserves dignity and respect. Anyway if most people in the US are now overweight the airlines, movie theaters, and buses should make the d*#$ seats bigger. They're already charging us for it anyway.

Peace and blessings

[doublestop]

Hi Superjaay,

Thanks for the correction, of course the thread was not meant to put down overweight people. I did not explicitely say so and my wordings are unpolite so I can imagine that you feel 'attacked' in am way. I am sorry.

I know (sort of) how hard it is to lose weight, my best friend weighs 300 lbs (just like you) and despite health problems such as extremely high blood pressure he just can't seem to lose it.

I don't think people in the USA are basically (psychologically) 'different' than people in other parts of the world. Which means that it is simply harder to keep slim in the USA than it is in other countries. It has nothing to do with 'will power' etc, since - as I said - why would an American have less will power than, say, a Swede?

Regarding the air line seats: bigger seats, and a maximum weight for passenger + luggage, would that be a solution? Unless, of course, obesity is treated as a disease, in which case solidarity would be called for (all pay equal prices) but in that case I would say that actions to tackle the social problem of obesity would be needed, just like actions against cancer. So, smaller portions, maximum fat contents etc....... Right?

[ehque]

I've always wondered how Americans become so obese.

As an Asian living in an Asian country, our "fat" people would look skinny in America. I'm considered marginally "fat" by most of my peers, yet I am 5'7" and 143 pounds. Consider that.

[spade2you]

Question 1: why is the 'food issue' so controversial, when it is clear that being overweight is not healthy AND when it is clear that most overweight people are not happy with their weight?

Americans have grown to enjoy the right to do most things that don't violate the law. Even though, I feel that encouraging a better overall lifestyle is in the best interest of everyone, especially tax payers, there's nothing to stop anyone from doing what they wish to themselves. Fortunately, money talks and companies are starting to have wellness incentive programs, offering discounts for losing weight, participating in various programs, etc.

With regards to obesity and depression, they are 2 different things. You can have one, the other, both, or neither. With obesity much more common, there's as much of a feeling for being singled out. When I was in grade school, there was THE fat kid. Classes vary, but sometimes the skinny kids are outnumbered. It's not so much about depression as it can be about indifference. A lot simply don't care.


Question 2. Is there attention for skinnier people and airplanes?[

Not at this point in time.

[baba]

Originally Posted by ehque

I've always wondered how Americans become so obese.

1. Too much processed and packaged food. Too much fast food.

2. Not enough exercise.

Both of these come down to our obsession with convenience.

[Yerf Dog]

Americans don't want the government to step on their right to be unhealthy.

[baba]

A timely incident: http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movi...ex.html?hpt=C2

[Febs]

Originally Posted by bmc

ANSWER The USA leads the world in obesity.

Actually, there are a couple of countries that are worse:
http://www.iotf.org/database/documen...bruary2010.pdf

[Lady Kayri]

I think Americans tend to be overweight because of all the food additives (all that extra sugar, salt, etc.) in our diet - we tend to eat a lot of highly processed foods. Second, we eat much bigger portions for each meal - one of the more successful diets in the last year or two is very simple - you buy 8 or 9 inch plates instead of the 11 to 12 inch plates most of us have in our houses; and you are to eat slowly, rather than fast; this gives your stomach time to 'signal' to your brain that it's full.

I also think that the reason why smoking and alcohol have far more laws controlling their uses is simple - their use & misuse affects other people who aren't using them far more often than overeating does. You smoke, the whole room smokes with you, and second hand smoke is almost as dangerous to your health as primary smoke it. You drink too much, you greatly increase your chances of having an accident (whether with a car, using a gun) or do something in a rage that hurts or kills another person. In other words, using your 'freedom' to smoke and drink may well adversely affect bystanders and innocents as well as family. If you are overweight, you may make other people uncomfortable (I've been there in the middle seat of coach class in an airplane with two overweight people on either side! Not fun!), but the only person whose health is being affected is that of the overweight person.

I think the idea of resturants listing ingrediants/calories in each item on a menu is a start, but on the other hand, who (aside from the person who keeps his/her head deliberately in a dark hole) doesn't know that eating food from McDonalds day in and day out isn't a sure-fire recipe for adding on pounds? Who doesn't know that ice cream is going to put more weight on than a salad without dressing? And a good part of our being an overweight nation, starting with kids, is that people just don't make very many home cooked meals any more - packaged foods, precooked foods, frozen meals - are far more the norm when you're eating at home than a from-scratch meal. And those packaged, precooked, frozen foods almost always have more than their share of additives, etc. that, one way or another, tend to make you fatter. Further, in many ways, the more fattening the food is, the cheaper it is to buy in the supermarket or in the resturant. A plain hamburger or cheeseburger normally costs less than a salad in most fast food resturants, for example.

And while the US is certainly one of the leaders in this unhealthy lifestyle, it should be noted that an awful lot of countries are following fairly closely in our wake...

[doublestop]

Americans don't want the government to step on their right to be unhealthy.

Sure, and that is a very "pro freedom" view.

But - then why do Americans accept or even demand a restrictive government policy when it comes to tobacco, alcohol or drugs? You don't have the freedom to smoke some homegrown 'grass', do you? Even though an occasional 'reefer' may be less unhealthy than being very overweight..... So, why restriction in some areas and freedom in others? I don't see the logic!


Edit: Lady Kayri, nice post! As an addition, I once heard a biology professor who said that we are 'programmed' just like animals to eat a lot and be lazy whenever we have the chance.....in the bush this was a good natural behaviour, you never knew when would be the next time that you could eat. You did not have to push yourself to excercise, the lions and bears forced you to run! In that sense, he said, skinny people are 'abnormal', the don't build reserves for the bad times; and fat people are behaving just like nature intended - only nature did not foresee such a long spell of prosperity.

[Lady Kayri]

Thanks - I should also add that another factor in childhood obesity is that a lot of schools are doing away with recess - when I was in school, we had a good half hour to just go out and have fun in the school's yard, most of which was spent playing around and not sitting down and reading - and really wasn't supervised very closely. From what I hear, a lot of schools today are even cutting down on gym classes as well. Too much 'teaching to the test' as well as being afraid of lawsuits if kids - being kids - start to horseplay around and get themselves or others hurt. And what kid has time to go out and play in pick-up baseball games and the like when they have 5 or 6 hours of homework when they get home from school?

[username n/a]

Originally Posted by doublestop

But - then why do Americans accept or even demand a restrictive government policy when it comes to tobacco, alcohol or drugs? You don't have the freedom to smoke some homegrown 'grass', do you? Even though an occasional 'reefer' may be less unhealthy than being very overweight..... So, why restriction in some areas and freedom in others? I don't see the logic!

You need to understand something. The majority of Americans are very, very dumb.

[RWP]

What ever, just please don't blame it on BACON!!!