Friend advice.

jp58 · #1 07-02-2011, 10:56 PM

Okay, first and foremost, I realize that someone in their 20's shouldn't have to ask questions like this. Also, I don't mean for this to be a discussion about religion although that plays a part in the story.

I have a different religious belief than most people in my area. It isn't something that I've moved to as part of a fad, but rather a decision made through time and experience. Lately, after I've told a few friends and people I used to call friend's about my semi-newfound beliefs, they've taken to attacking them, and I don't mean in the playful way that friends bash on each other.

Instead this has turned into people trying to bait me into an argument, posting links on my profile on social networking sites, and sometimes blatantly bashing my beliefs.

A few days ago, one of those people said that they were really disappointed in the way I was changing as a person, and that they couldn't be friends with someone with whom they have a fundamental disagreement. Fine. Understandable. If you feel like my religion is worth that. Whatever.

Tonight, a mutual friend decided to start a friendly conversation with "no offense," and it went downhill from there. It ended with him telling me to "Shut expletive up." and that he had no desire to be friends with someone who felt the way I do about religion.

Am I missing something or being insensitive or what? I mean I realize that you guys don't and can't know the specifics, and I will say that I stand firm in my beliefs, but I feel like the way they were acting is ridiculous.

MadMan118 · #2 07-02-2011, 11:00 PM

Well I dunno what you're into but you've got to make the decision whats really important to you. Its hard to be any religion in this country. I'm a Christian and I get bad raps from people all the time out here in CA.

tastybasslines · #3 07-02-2011, 11:12 PM

I have no problem ditching "friends" any more. If I were you, I'd look for people in your newfound belief circle and make new friends. You'll soon forget about them, unless it's a very deep friendship.

champbassist · #4 07-02-2011, 11:15 PM

I think I have an idea what religious faith you're pointing to, considering such strong reactions from your friends (I'm sure it's one of two that I'm thinking about). I think what they're frustrated about ultimately boils down to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp58

they couldn't be friends with someone with whom they have a fundamental disagreement.

I have a serious problem with the above statement. Unless the issue on which your friend has a 'fundamental disagreement' with you is affecting your day-to-day relationship with him in any way, I can't understand how this disagreement could serve as grounds for severing ties with you.

I've no advice, as such, to give you except that you should do what you think is right and those friends of yours who are truly are worth their friendship will accept you despite initial apprehension or even repulsion.

**jmattbassplaya** · #5 07-02-2011, 11:18 PM

Parts of Tennessee can be VERY bad about that sort of thing, especially once you move out and away from the major cities. Just know that not everyone in this state is like that. Personally, if someone is going to judge me on my beliefs or others and their beliefs then they're someone I don't want to be associated with anyways.

Also, take it from someone slightly older than you - you're beginning to go through a period in your life where you're going to lose a bunch of friendships over people needing to be "right". These people need to have their beliefs and ideas reaffirmed constantly by others, and anyone who represents something "different" is just another thing to remind them that they might in fact be wrong, and that scares them.

In internet speak, don't feed the trolls. It's better to move on and away from these people and find new friends who share similar ideas and beliefs as you, while still remaining open minded to things that are different. Try new things, experiment, and above all else don't put others down. Just be the better person in this situation as best as you can and move on gracefully.

Oh, and feel free to PM me if you ever need to talk about stuff. I know it seems like you shouldn't need someone to talk to about this sort of thing given your age, but this sort of thing happens to all of us and sometimes it helps just to vent.

Munjibunga · #6 07-02-2011, 11:21 PM

What would the world be like without superstitions to argue about (or kill people over)? I don't talk about religion with my friends, and will only argue about it with people with whom I have no interest in being friends anyway. Maybe you should keep a lower profile on your religious views. I get the impression you're not bashful about telling people about it. How do they even know what your religion is?

My friends know I'm not religious and, if they couldn't handle it, I guess we wouldn't be friends.

So what is it? Wicca?

sandmangeck · #7 07-02-2011, 11:21 PM

great post jmatt. life is too short to be surrounded by people who base friendships on what happens when your in the dirt.

skwee · #8 07-03-2011, 12:22 AM

jp, to quote Polonius in Hamlet: "To thine own self be true". It's very healthy, no matter what your beliefs are, to be able to express how you feel about things as a human being. Remember that no matter what anyone else feels or "knows" to be "true in his heart", that deep in the dark night nobody really truly knows what the meaning of life is. This means that your understanding, if it works for you, if just fine, and there are others that think about it just the way you do.

powderfinger · #9 07-03-2011, 12:44 AM

Imagine how I felt being a Zen Buddhist living 2 blocks from a snake handling church in North Carolina in the 80s.

powderfinger · #10 07-03-2011, 12:47 AM

Btw- I respect everyone's religious beliefs (or lack of beliefs). MLK once said that we should not judge men by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. I believe this applies to religion as well. People have done some pretty nasty things in the name of God. Then again, some people have done some pretty remarkable things in the name of God.

My advice. Be a good person

jp58 · #11 07-03-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

What would the world be like without superstitions to argue about (or kill people over)? I don't talk about religion with my friends, and will only argue about it with people with whom I have no interest in being friends anyway. Maybe you should keep a lower profile on your religious views. I get the impression you're not bashful about telling people about it. How do they even know what your religion is?

My friends know I'm not religious and, if they couldn't handle it, I guess we wouldn't be friends.

So what is it? Wicca?

No, I'm an atheist. I'm not the Darwin Fish on my car kind of atheist. Most of this came from me asking around for advice because I felt I was losing my faith. I updated them, because I was assuming as friends, they had some vested interest in me.

Phalex · #12 07-03-2011, 01:01 AM

IME People who claim they are persecuted because of their beliefs are in reality (mine anyway) persecuted because they are obnoxious. I have friends that believe very different things than I do, and it's cool. I also know people that believe the same things I do that are asshats.

Just IMO, IME etc....

Munjibunga · #13 07-03-2011, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp58

No, I'm an atheist. I'm not the Darwin Fish on my car kind of atheist. Most of this came from me asking around for advice because I felt I was losing my faith. I updated them, because I was assuming as friends, they had some vested interest in me.

I hope you're actually an agnostic. If not, you can't be my friend.

I have friends of many religions (Hindu, Jewish, Christian, Mormon, etc.) and, as I said previously, I don't discuss religion with them. They are not going to like my views on religion, and their friendship is more important to me than trying to impose my beliefs on them. They likewise respect me by not imposing theirs on me. Interestingly, my best friend refuses to believe I'm non-religious, so he just goes on believing I'm Catholic, like my family (although I was raised Lutheran). It doesn't help that I go to church with the family twice a year for family's sake. The priest at the church seems half-hip, so it's not too damaging to my psyche.

My advice to you is to avoid discussing religion with your friends. You're in the middle of the Bible belt, and it could get you killed.

jp58 · #14 07-03-2011, 02:01 AM

Aww. I'll miss you, Munji.

Hobobob · #15 07-03-2011, 02:07 AM

I have made sure that nobody really knows what my faith really is. I've found it advantageous to just let people assume about me whatever helps them sleep better at night. Religion is a personal thing, so therefore I keep it personal. What should really matter is who I am anyways, not what I choose to believe. I keep it to myself, just like how I keep to myself that I am actually sexually attracted to pineapples. Wait, nevermind.... You didn't hear ANYTHING!

Munjibunga · #16 07-03-2011, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phalex

IME People who claim they are persecuted because of their beliefs are in reality (mine anyway) persecuted because they are obnoxious.

This is true of my experience as well.

hrodbert696 · #17 07-03-2011, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

What would the world be like without superstitions to argue about (or kill people over)?

I call foul. Munji, you're a smart enough guy to recognize the double standard here. Why do atheists get to spew these kinds of insults at people of faith, but if religious people use similar insults of unbelievers, or merely try to persuade others of the value of their faith, they are "obnoxious" at best and threatening at worst? The vast vast majority of religious people are perfectly rational (and peaceful), yet still have the crusades and inquisition and other historical episodes that they neither participated in nor approve of (and which the people who bring them up generally have never studied and do not really understand) thrown in their faces.

To the OP, the ancient philosophers said that friendship is two people sharing a common love. If the common love you had with these people was shared religion, then it is no surprise that taking it away is going to damage and maybe end the friendship, unless there is some other basis for it. Religion defines identity for those who adhere to it deeply; leaving a religion puts you outside their identity group.

I'm not approving of their behavior - I would hope that they would have a stake in finding other bases for continued friendship with you too -- but just trying to help think through the dynamics of your experience.

jp58 · #18 07-03-2011, 02:37 AM

These were people I studied with at school, former bandmates that I've maintained a frienship outside of music, ex co-workers, etc. These aren't just people I know through church. I was honestly surprised at the "talk" that one of these people had with me tonight, and I needed a place to vent. I'm not calling foul or claiming to be persecuted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phalex

IME People who claim they are persecuted because of their beliefs are in reality (mine anyway) persecuted because they are obnoxious. I have friends that believe very different things than I do, and it's cool. I also know people that believe the same things I do that are asshats.

Just IMO, IME etc....

I'd rather be called an insensitive, obnoxious, brash/rash jerk than I would be told that my beliefs were the reason they don't want to surround themselves with me if that's the way I feel. Although that would be too simple and would be driving straight into conflict instead of skirting around it.

Tituscrow · #19 07-03-2011, 03:09 AM

Last time we tried to have a philosophical debate on the ethics and psyches of believers vs non-believers, I think it got shut down. Rememeber 'Calling All Catholics' anyone?

Anyway, I doubt anyone has ever had any kind of conversion from one side to the the other as a result of Internet mud slinging...if anything it probably entrenches views already held.

My advice would be do what you've got to do to just generally be a good person. If your mates can't handle that, then they aren't the mates you thought they were, so ditch them and move on. They - and you - will get over it....you're in your 20's!

champbassist · #20 07-03-2011, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

I call foul. Munji, you're a smart enough guy to recognize the double standard here. Why do atheists get to spew these kinds of insults at people of faith, but if religious people use similar insults of unbelievers, or merely try to persuade others of the value of their faith, they are "obnoxious" at best and threatening at worst? The vast vast majority of religious people are perfectly rational (and peaceful), yet still have the crusades and inquisition and other historical episodes that they neither participated in nor approve of (and which the people who bring them up generally have never studied and do not really understand) thrown in their faces.

This is exactly what I feared was going to happen to this thread

It's not without reason that religion can't be discussed on 'open' TB forums.