Friend Zone - Sexist or Innocent Term used to Describe a Common Situation?

[MEKer]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

Some consider the belief in a "friend zone" sexist because the implication is that man X would inevitably have a shot at woman Y if he hadn't made friends with her first. They take that to imply that man X thinks all women are there for the conquering and the "friend zone" is an unfair defense tactic against his advances (and that it was a tactical error on his part to form a friendship with a desirable woman in the first place).

Personally, I think that's overthinking and overpoliticizing it a bit, but it has a point. I don't feel any need to launch crusades and protests against guys who kvetch about being "friend zoned." Lay off and let them lick their wounds.

But when a woman says, "I just think of you as a friend," what she's trying to say is, "I'm not into you," without being mean about it. That's all there is to it.

Really. This whole thing of Friendzone and other "hip" pseudo-psych stuff that periodically circulates in society is, in the end, a bunch of meaningless crap. The dance between man and woman has not changed since the beginning. The only thing that changes is the way societal agendas change, as though they think they can change basic nature. They can surely pervert it and subvert it with fad behavior or speech, but "sexism" itself is ALWAYS the basis of our inter-sex interactions, no matter how we camouflage them with "sophistication", spurious moral high grounds or pseudo-psych. It's quite laughable. I know darn well the dirty little thoughts that go through peoples' heads when they evaluate someone (which we always do--face it--you instantly know whether or not you see any woman as a sex object--it is definitelty a yes or no---and you then act accordingly).
In the end, our friend, hrodbert696, pretty much hits the nail on the head in his last paragraph (bolded).
Simple.

[jrthebassguy]

Here is a fantastic video about the "friend zone" by Vsauce, IMO the best YouTube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGK2KprU-To



The older I get though, the less I tend to believe in it. My girlfriend and I were decent friends for a while before we started dating, but I never felt "zoned" one way or the other.

[Willicious]

Originally Posted by jrthebassguy

Here is a fantastic video about the "friend zone" by Vsauce, IMO the best YouTube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGK2KprU-To

Hadn't heard of this guy. Brilliant.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Yea, I usually stay away from those topics myself because sooner or later the posts begin to legitimately disgust me. I've got thoughts on the subject but I'd rather just duck out now.

Believe it or not, the stuff you read here is pretty mild compared to some of the stuff written by the pick-up guys and the "true forced loneliness" guys.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

Believe it or not, the stuff you read here is pretty mild compared to some of the stuff written by the pick-up guys and the "true forced loneliness" guys.

Oh believe me, I've seen my fair share of PUAs and MRAs.
Absolutely horrifying stuff.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by MEKer

Really. This whole thing of Friendzone and other "hip" pseudo-psych stuff that periodically circulates in society is, in the end, a bunch of meaningless crap. The dance between man and woman has not changed since the beginning. The only thing that changes is the way societal agendas change, as though they think they can change basic nature. They can surely pervert it and subvert it with fad behavior or speech, but "sexism" itself is ALWAYS the basis of our inter-sex interactions, no matter how we camouflage them with "sophistication", spurious moral high grounds or pseudo-psych. It's quite laughable. I know darn well the dirty little thoughts that go through peoples' heads when they evaluate someone (which we always do--face it--you instantly know whether or not you see any woman as a sex object--it is definitelty a yes or no---and you then act accordingly).
In the end, our friend, hrodbert696, pretty much hits the nail on the head in his last paragraph (bolded).
Simple.

I was playing with the thought of whether or not we're just animals at the end of the day of if we're somehow above it with the concepts that we call ethics, morals, and society. I couldn't answer that question, so I wasn't able to go too far with that thought Anyone care to share they're view on this?

As to the very last bit of your post, I will say that sexual attraction isn't always that simple of a thing. It's not always a simple yes or no. There have been a number of women who I once only saw as friends turn into the sexiest people in my life. Likewise, women who I once only wanted to hook up with eventually turned into people who I'd consider family and would never want to get hitched with. I guess things can be a yes or no at first, but time does have a way of changing the way we see things... including people.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I was playing with the thought of whether or not we're just animals at the end of the day of if we're somehow above it with the concepts that we call ethics, morals, and society. I couldn't answer that question, so I wasn't able to go too far with that thought Anyone care to share they're view on this?

Just my 0.02, and I'm probably oversimplifying and stating the obvious, but I think that while we retain the 'natural instincts' that all animals possess, thanks to our highly evolved brains, our perspectives on these have been altered to the point where our actual, physical behavior is influenced, making us less direct and mechanical in performing actions that natural instincts would impulsively cause us to carry out.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Willicious

Hadn't heard of this guy. Brilliant.

+1,415

That was an excellent explanation, and required no vulgar internet-tough-guy posturing. Well done!

I'd just like to add that the "friend zone" is a two way street. I've "friend zoned" plenty of people and been "friend zoned" plenty of times. Whoever said it's just a polite way of saying "I like you, but I don't like like you" nailed it.

[Relic]

Friend zone.... blah... if you're "friend zoned" then you allowed it to happen to yourself. I don't get that the onus always seems to be on the other person as if THEY hold the power to your happiness, etc etc etc.. you control your own destiny, not someone else. If you allow yourself to be led around like a lost puppy then congrats, you just "friend zoned" yourself. If she's not into you in that way, then she's simply not. You can't force her to be and sticking around with a forlorn hope makes you look like a fool and is wasting your time. Move on. Stop over analyzing it. Either that, or just accept that she's a "friend" and live with it. If you want more, look elsewhere.
Is it sexist? Don't know, don't care. Some folks on either side of the equation may view things in sexist ways which can govern their behavior towards the opposite sex so sure, it can be certainly. The bottom line is that term, "friend zone" just another term to try to categorize something that's too complex to fit neatly into a little box. And it's also an excuse at times is what it is. Just saying.

[BawanaRik]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Oh believe me, I've seen my fair share of PUAs and MRAs.
Absolutely horrifying stuff.

So you consider the Men's Rights men horrifying? Odd, I would never describe a fight for equality as horrifying.

Please explain.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by cjmodulus

Care to share your box destruction technique, oh master matticus?
No, that's not facetiousness, I'm genuinely curious as I tend to find myself stuck in said box quite frequently with nothing but a bass to practice on... :/
I subbed to this thread, and I've read some interesting perspectives so far.

The simple answer... there is no box. Well there is, but we put ourselves there, no one else.

There are only two women from back in the day in which I ever felt I was "friend zoned" by. Ive come to find that I could have sealed the deal with either of these women, had I the right approach. Both women felt something for me, and had I known that, or been confident enough to think that, things would have went much differently.

Originally Posted by sandmangeck

You can eradicate the friendzone by copius amounts of whiskey, and a night alone.

And the confidence to make the move.

Originally Posted by Relic

Friend zone.... blah... if you're "friend zoned" then you allowed it to happen to yourself.

Yup. I think there are two different outlooks on "friend zone" running in this thread. One is where the girl isnt into you, and says she just wants to be friends. To me, thats not being "friend zoned", thats being turned down. My take on the "friend zone" is when a girl keeps you around because youre into her, she knows it, and keeps you around because of it.

I don't get that the onus always seems to be on the other person as if THEY hold the power to your happiness, etc etc etc.. you control your own destiny, not someone else. If you allow yourself to be led around like a lost puppy then congrats, you just "friend zoned" yourself. If she's not into you in that way, then she's simply not. You can't force her to be and sticking around with a forlorn hope makes you look like a fool and is wasting your time. Move on. Stop over analyzing it. Either that, or just accept that she's a "friend" and live with it. If you want more, look elsewhere.

Yup.

Is it sexist? Don't know, don't care. Some folks on either side of the equation may view things in sexist ways which can govern their behavior towards the opposite sex so sure, it can be certainly. The bottom line is that term, "friend zone" just another term to try to categorize something that's too complex to fit neatly into a little box. And it's also an excuse at times is what it is. Just saying.

I still dont see how its "discriminatory on the basis of sex", which is the definition of sexist, though.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

I still dont see how its "discriminatory on the basis of sex", which is the definition of sexist, though.

Yeah me neither really. What I'm saying is that if someone is already prone to sexist thinking/behavior, then perhaps some of their behavior in this arena might fall into that category. I'm not sure I'd think that 'friend zone" thinking itself is inherently sexist though.

[BawanaRik]

It's not "discriminatory on the basis of sex". What you have is group of people who have been rewarded with trillions and trillions of dollars and many other perks simply by saying "That's sexist"

I suggest you read up on Pavlov and his canines. Or better yet use me as a subject. Give me a trillion dollars for saying "that's sexist" a few times and see how my vocabulary shrinks. Just as a person with a hammer sees every problem as a nail a person who is rewarded for saying "That's sexist" will see every problem as "Sexist".

A person of the rewarded category who says the term "That's sexist" is a giving Pavlovian response to being rewarded for saying that's sexist. There is no need for any actual sexism to occur. And as long as this group is rewarded for barking out the term that's sexist they will continue to bark it out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +

I still dont see how its "discriminatory on the basis of sex", which is the definition of sexist, though.[/quote]

[Ziltoid]

wow.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

This post is dripping with cynicism, lol.

...but why does it smell like stale pasta?

[Relic]

Hmmm...interesting

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by Ziltoid

wow.

concur'd

Originally Posted by BawanaRik

It's not "discriminatory on the basis of sex". What you have is group of people who have been rewarded with trillions and trillions of dollars and many other perks simply by saying "That's sexist"

I suggest you read up on Pavlov and his canines. Or better yet use me as a subject. Give me a trillion dollars for saying "that's sexist" a few times and see how my vocabulary shrinks. Just as a person with a hammer sees every problem as a nail a person who is rewarded for saying "That's sexist" will see every problem as "Sexist".

A person of the rewarded category who says the term "That's sexist" is a giving Pavlovian response to being rewarded for saying that's sexist. There is no need for any actual sexism to occur. And as long as this group is rewarded for barking out the term that's sexist they will continue to bark it out.

And what, exactly, is to be gained by calling a term such as "friend zone" sexist?
Who is this group of people saying that the term is sexist?

[Jazz Ad]

The amount of stupid rules and customs that go around relationships is incredible.
Call after x days, don't answer before y messages, act after 2.45 hours...
I once discovered that if you don't play these games, people can't play them on you.
Ask for the truth, be brutally honest, realize that there are some people who will never be into you and in the end, you win.

That is, unless you want to pick up as many partners as you want and exploit them. In this case, playing the rules wisely is a very good way to achieve your goal.

[Ziltoid]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

The amount of stupid rules and customs that go around relationships is incredible.
Call after x days, don't answer before y messages, act after 2.45 hours...
I once discovered that if you don't play these games, people can't play them on you.
Ask for the truth, be brutally honest, realize that there are some people who will never be into you and in the end, you win.

That is, unless you want to pick up as many partners as you want and exploit them. In this case, playing the rules wisely is a very good way to achieve your goal.

Most rules I've seen also seem to be from another era. The perfect example being the 3 days rule for a call back. 3 days in 2013 is pretty much an eternity, imo.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by BawanaRik

I didn't say the "Friend Zone" was Sexist. I said that painting all men as desparite creatures who exist only in reference to the V word mentioned in the link is sexist. And quite immature.

Go back to that link and imagine the gender roles reversed and anyone daring to make similar comments about a girl. The fact is that if it's offensive when the gender roles ( and this does not just apply to gender bias. I apply it to every PC cannard) then it's offensive.



"Im having trouble in seeing how someone could view the "friend zone" as sexist, though.

What is "disparite"?