The future of automobiles?

[AmazingGracePlayer]

Well, gas prices are now at a record high (and doesn't seem like it's going to drop any time soon). What does that mean for the future of automobile industries? Is Dom going to be driving a tricked out Civic Hybrid in Fast and Furious 4? Please feel free to discuss (let's keep politics to a minimum, although the upcoming presidency election will no doubt have dramatic impact on this topic)

[KeithBMI]

Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a nice muscle car for cheap 10 or 15 years down the road.

[69nites]

Originally Posted by AmazingGracePlayer

Well, gas prices are now at a record high (and doesn't seem like it's going to drop any time soon). What does that mean for the future of automobile industries? Is Dom going to be driving a tricked out Civic Hybrid in Fast and Furious 4? Please feel free to discuss (let's keep politics to a minimum, although the upcoming presidency election will no doubt have dramatic impact on this topic)

hybrids cause more damage to the environment than the gasoline powered cars they are trying to replace and really don't do that much better on gas than what they are replacing. They also cost enough extra money that it's not an economical replacement.

HOW you drive has more impact on your mileage than WHAT you drive.

simply starting to use gas saving driving techniques will get you much more mileage without spending any money on a new vehicle.

I get 24 MPG actual out of an 86 S10.

When I was still driving a lower 12 second 240sx with a SR20DET and a GT28RS turbo I still got 26 MPG as long as I kept it out of boost.

auto manufacturers are putting out 35 MPG rated mid sized sedans these days I don't see what needs to be done other than lifestyle changes for Americans.

[nbw]

I disagree about how good the milage is on some hybrids. My fathers prius was amazing for a car of it's weight. Going from close to 70mpg on the highway to not using any gas at all when stopped, charging the battery as you slow down ect. That said, my stepmother could barely get 50 on the highway, so yes it is still all dependent on how you drive it. I hope they decide to give us a hybrid deisel soon, I think the results of that will be quite interesting.

I found this recently. I must say I'm shocked we haven't even heard a peep from the media here in the states about it. A car powered by water, any water, salt water, tea.. even my own pee?
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561

[69nites]

Originally Posted by nbw

I disagree about how good the milage is on some hybrids. My fathers prius was amazing for a car of it's weight. Going from close to 70mpg on the highway to not using any gas at all when stopped, charging the battery as you slow down ect. That said, my stepmother could barely get 50 on the highway, so yes it is still all dependent on how you drive it. I hope they decide to give us a hybrid deisel soon, I think the results of that will be quite interesting.

I found this recently. I must say I'm shocked we haven't even heard a peep from the media here in the states about it. A car powered by water, any water, salt water, tea.. even my own pee?
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561

http://greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

most hybrids don't get near the gas mileage to justify their cost

at actual highway speed most get worse mileage than your average compact.

mining the materials for the batteries making them and disposing of them does MUCH more damage to the environment than a gasoline engine does.

Veggie oil is the cheapest current source of fuel. You can rock an H1 with a veggie oil conversion cheaper than what most are driving right now.

[tplyons]

It's going to take much higher prices to change something that is such a big part of our culture.

We're going to see a bigger shift in work weeks from 5 8 hour days to 4 10 hour days to decrease driving, and we're going to see a lot more telecommuting to reduce driving. Other than that, you'll be seeing a trend towards smaller cars, but you're still going to have large behemoths out there.

[AmazingGracePlayer]

Originally Posted by KeithBMI

Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a nice muscle car for cheap 10 or 15 years down the road.

True love...

[PaleMelanesian]

That line about hybrid batteries being bad for the environment is COMPLETELY false. A few selected points:
- The source article compared a prius (expected lifespan 100k miles) and a Hummer (expected lifespan 300k miles). GM's reliability is three times better than Toyota's? Doubtful...
- Only 1/2 of 1% of the nickel mined at Sudbury, Canada goes to Toyota's battery program. About 2/3 of it goes to steel production, of which the larger vehicles use more.
- The mine in Sudbury was a mess in the 70's. It's since been cleaned up and reforested and won several environmental awards.

I have personally driven a Prius across the country (Chicago - San Francisco) with an average of 60mpg. What other cars get that kind of mileage?

-------------------
This May, the best-selling vehicle was not the F150 like it's always been. It was the Honda Civic. I expect we'll see more of that. Also,
- smaller cars
- more efficient cars
- more hybrids
- more diesels
- more electrics
- fewer large and powerful cars. They'll still be here, but not in the quantities we see now.

I think we'll see MPG as a selling point and an engineering priority, instead of a footnote like it has been.

[Joe Gress]

Originally Posted by KeithBMI

Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a nice muscle car for cheap 10 or 15 years down the road.

Fingers crossed.

[69nites]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

That line about hybrid batteries being bad for the environment is COMPLETELY false. A few selected points:
- The source article compared a prius (expected lifespan 100k miles) and a Hummer (expected lifespan 300k miles). GM's reliability is three times better than Toyota's? Doubtful...
- Only 1/2 of 1% of the nickel mined at Sudbury, Canada goes to Toyota's battery program. About 2/3 of it goes to steel production, of which the larger vehicles use more.
- The mine in Sudbury was a mess in the 70's. It's since been cleaned up and reforested and won several environmental awards.

I have personally driven a Prius across the country (Chicago - San Francisco) with an average of 60mpg. What other cars get that kind of mileage?

-------------------
This May, the best-selling vehicle was not the F150 like it's always been. It was the Honda Civic. I expect we'll see more of that. Also,
- smaller cars
- more efficient cars
- more hybrids
- more diesels
- more electrics
- fewer large and powerful cars. They'll still be here, but not in the quantities we see now.

I think we'll see MPG as a selling point and an engineering priority, instead of a footnote like it has been.

.5% of the nickel pollution is in fact greater than the difference in vehicle emissions even if 100% of the cars on the road instantly became hybrid....ohh yeah and on top of that it has effected the cost of nickel which is also raising the cost of raw steel.

even the hyper milers aren't getting 60MPG out of their prius so you're either lieing or mistaken.

the reason the F150 wasn't the best selling vehicle this year wasn't due to gas prices at all. It was because the construction industry has been in a slump and more people are buying foreign trucks because they are actually made in the united states by union workers...

[flakeh]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

That line about hybrid batteries being bad for the environment is COMPLETELY false. A few selected points:
- The source article compared a prius (expected lifespan 100k miles) and a Hummer (expected lifespan 300k miles). GM's reliability is three times better than Toyota's? Doubtful...
- Only 1/2 of 1% of the nickel mined at Sudbury, Canada goes to Toyota's battery program. About 2/3 of it goes to steel production, of which the larger vehicles use more.
- The mine in Sudbury was a mess in the 70's. It's since been cleaned up and reforested and won several environmental awards.

I have personally driven a Prius across the country (Chicago - San Francisco) with an average of 60mpg. What other cars get that kind of mileage?

-------------------
This May, the best-selling vehicle was not the F150 like it's always been. It was the Honda Civic. I expect we'll see more of that. Also,
- smaller cars
- more efficient cars
- more hybrids
- more diesels
- more electrics
- fewer large and powerful cars. They'll still be here, but not in the quantities we see now.

I think we'll see MPG as a selling point and an engineering priority, instead of a footnote like it has been.

Well, Mr Texan, Ever been to sudbury? Hm?

69nites article is legit.

Also, With this ethanol crap. I live in a farm community, Surrounded by corn farmers, and an ethanol plant will be shortly put here. The farmers are against it becuase they loose profit, and the process to produce ethanol creates more pollution per litre then the combustion of gasoline.

The civic is the leading seller becuase of this horrible mindset that gas is running out. the supply of gas is at its largest becuase less people buy it. Check any statistic regarding gas production, Its at an all time LOW becuase no one is buying it.

Oh, and my motorcycle gets 75 mpg. thats before airbox mods and rejet. Like to see your Prius to that.

[PaleMelanesian]

In addition to the Civic outselling the F150,
Civic outsold Accord in May
Corolla outsold Camry in May
small and efficient is selling. People are voting with their wallets.

60mpg - Chicago to San Francisco on 3 tanks of gas. The tank only holds 12 gallons. Do the math. That was with 3 people and bags on board. Like to see your motorcycle do that.

[Pilgrim]

I expect.....

- Gas to stay around $3.50-$4.50 a gallon
- Cars to get smaller
- Hybrids to proliferate
- More calls to drill for oil (although it won't lower the price any)
- More support for public transit
- I HOPE for a re-emergence of the US passenger train system

And BTW - when you think about plug-in hybrids, remember that I call them "nuclear-powered cars", because that AC power has to come from a generating plant - most of which are nuclear. Some of those plants are coal-powered, though, so it's fair to call some of those hybrids coal-powered. Therefore, plug-in hybrids are cool as long as you're willing to build more coal or nuclear powered electrical plants.

TANSTAAFL: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

[69nites]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

In addition to the Civic outselling the F150,
Civic outsold Accord in May
Corolla outsold Camry in May
small and efficient is selling. People are voting with their wallets.

60mpg - Chicago to San Francisco on 3 tanks of gas. The tank only holds 12 gallons. Do the math. That was with 3 people and bags on board. Like to see your motorcycle do that.

ahh so you're not mistaken.

you're lieing. I guess that's a popular route here on the internet.

well unless you didn't count the gas you started out with. Then I guess you could still be mistaken.

[flakeh]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

In addition to the Civic outselling the F150,
Civic outsold Accord in May
Corolla outsold Camry in May
small and efficient is selling. People are voting with their wallets.

60mpg - Chicago to San Francisco on 3 tanks of gas. The tank only holds 12 gallons. Do the math. That was with 3 people and bags on board. Like to see your motorcycle do that.

Honda goldwing sidecar with tow. 3 people and 110 lbs of baggage. Don't think those exist? google is your friend.

[Son of Sanford]

Originally Posted by tplyons

It's going to take much higher prices to change something that is such a big part of our culture.

We're going to see a bigger shift in work weeks from 5 8 hour days to 4 10 hour days to decrease driving, and we're going to see a lot more telecommuting to reduce driving. Other than that, you'll be seeing a trend towards smaller cars, but you're still going to have large behemoths out there.

+1 on the trend towards smaller cars. I think another trend we will see emerge is the average time people hold on to vehicles. I'm not sure you are going to see a huge jump to hybrids until automakers have a significant number of them on the road past 100K. John Q. Public is not going to buy a vehicle that costs more than it's all-gas counterpart with a negligible financial benfit to him without the guarantee that this vehicle will be at least as reliable as the alternative.

[PaleMelanesian]

Haha. True. A goldwing will do that. But why? Why not just get a car at that point?

Sudbury - no, I haven't been there. But these folks have: http://www.sudburysoilsstudy.com/EN/...background.asp

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by 69nites

ahh so you're not mistaken.

you're lieing. I guess that's a popular route here on the internet.

well unless you didn't count the gas you started out with. Then I guess you could still be mistaken.

So it's impossible to get 60mpg on that trip with that car? Just curious since you outright called him a liar.

[Brad Johnson]

Comparing cars and motorcycle in this discussion makes just a bit more sense than throwing planes into the mix. IMO.

You can fit well over a dozen clowns in an old Volkswagen Beetle but seriously, who'd want to make that commute?

[flakeh]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

Haha. True. A goldwing will do that. But why? Why not just get a car at that point?

Sudbury - no, I haven't been there. But these folks have: http://www.sudburysoilsstudy.com/EN/...background.asp

Becuase at $10,000 for most new goldwings, Why the hell not?

I got my bike for 4500$. Its a Hyosung GT250. 75 MPG approx. If I drive conservatively. After the airbox was modified, I can hit 70 will throttle pinned. Even on hard starts, I can still get 70. At 140 km/h, I get 68mpg. Most cars won't do that.

Besides, Motorcycles are fun!