Guitars taken because of illegal wood.

VitalSigns · #1 08-26-2011, 05:18 PM

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/busin...ns-away/41787/

Seriously? This is BS. Taking someones guitar is like chopping their dinger off..

MatticusMania · #2 08-26-2011, 05:23 PM

Not necessarily, as in most cases, guitars are more easily replaced.

VitalSigns · #3 08-26-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

Not necessarily, as in most cases, guitars are more easily replaced.

Not mine!

And I just noticed there's already a thread on this...

Stinsok · #4 08-26-2011, 05:28 PM

I feel safe now.

Webtroll · #5 08-26-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitalSigns

Not mine!

And I just noticed there's already a thread on this...

just 1?

Floyd Eye · #6 08-26-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webtroll

just 1?

Yeah, the rest have disappeared for some reason.

bassrique · #7 08-26-2011, 06:30 PM

How the heck am I supposed to prove where all the wood components came from on my new and (even more-so) vintage instruments?

Quote:

Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.

There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.

Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.

Tracebassplayer · #8 08-26-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassrique

How the heck am I supposed to prove where all the wood components came from on my new and (even more-so) vintage instruments?

Um here a guess ... get receipt

Muaguana · #9 08-26-2011, 07:13 PM

I think the most interesting thing about this article is that it seems to imply that guitarists as a whole are not political people whatsoever, and only when their instruments are threatened do they start talking current events. So they're almost saying "These guys didn't care who was in office or what they were doing, until this happened." Sure, because all guitarists (and bass guitarists) live in a vacuum and only care about what directly affects their axes.

The Crusader · #10 08-26-2011, 07:31 PM

with all that's going on in the country and the world you would think that the department of justice could find something more worthwhile to do. more BS smokescreens.

1958Bassman · #11 08-26-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassrique

How the heck am I supposed to prove where all the wood components came from on my new and (even more-so) vintage instruments?

If your instruments were made during the years when the harvesting of certain wood species was banned, that specie needs to have been in the company's inventory before the ban. Brazilian rosewood is a good example- if Gibson, Martin and the others had it in stock, it was OK to use it. If they got it after the ban started, their supplier would have been required to prove where/when they got it. Some Brazilian rosewood has been plantation-grown since the ban started in the '70s and that's OK to use because it's grown as a renewable resource. It's not old growth, but it's still Brazilian rosewood.

bassrique · #12 08-26-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracebassplayer

Um here a guess ... get receipt

A receipt doesn't list where all of the components came from and from who and so on and so on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muaguana

I think the most interesting thing about this article is that it seems to imply that guitarists as a whole are not political people whatsoever, and only when their instruments are threatened do they start talking current events. So they're almost saying "These guys didn't care who was in office or what they were doing, until this happened." Sure, because all guitarists (and bass guitarists) live in a vacuum and only care about what directly affects their axes.

That's not really what was said, but that point was a minor one compared to the thrust of the WSJ article. Let's stay away from the ancillary (political) point.

Tracebassplayer · #13 08-26-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassrique

A receipt doesn't list where all of the components came from and from who and so on and so on.

No, but, it would show that you purchased it legally whether separate from or as part of the manufactured instrument via legal sales and channels.
It would be up to them to prove otherwise in court. At least in the USA, it is....Proof is up to the accuser to make and they would subpena the records of the maker that purchased the woods.

Floyd Eye · #14 08-26-2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracebassplayer

No, but, it would show that you purchased it legally whether separate from or as part of the manufactured instrument via legal sales and channels.
It would be up to them to prove otherwise in court. At least in the USA, it is....Proof is up to the accuser to make and they would subpena the records of the maker that purchased the woods.

Proof is up to the accuser huh? Then why has Gibson not had their property returned from the raid 2 years ago? They weren't charged with anything.

bassrique · #15 08-26-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracebassplayer

No, but, it would show that you purchased it legally whether separate from or as part of the manufactured instrument via legal sales and channels.
It would be up to them to prove otherwise in court. At least in the USA, it is....Proof is up to the accuser to make and they would subpena the records of the maker that purchased the woods.

I need to go to court over a confiscated vintage instrument? Insane.

Once again:

Quote:

Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.

There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.

Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.

Prosecuted for antiques. Did I say "insane" already? I'll add offensive, unjust and stupid.

Tracebassplayer · #16 08-26-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Proof is up to the accuser huh? Then why has Gibson not had their property returned from the raid 2 years ago? They weren't charged with anything.

Don't start something you can't finish...

Asking me that question infers that I was involved with that operation and would have an answer for you.
Even if I was, I would not likely be inclined to provide you with said answer.

You would be better off directing that question to Gibson's attorney/s.

Definitely · #17 08-26-2011, 08:01 PM

ok, and what will they do after confiscating them, take them apart and make them back into trees? I don't think so. there they will sit, in some forgotten corner of justice collecting dust, while their owners weep and mortgage their houses to buy new ones. all they should do (not that they actually should but it would be better) is fine them. let them keep their prized possessions!

boynamedsuse · #18 08-26-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracebassplayer

Um here a guess ... get receipt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracebassplayer

I didn't blow off the OP issue. I just answered your question on how to prove yours is/was legit.

I'll refer you to the quote below... So simple even a caveman could get it.

Um here is a reply: does your receipt show when and where the wood components were harvested and when and where the instrument was made? If not, the receipt doesn't help.

Now maybe even a caveman can understand that.

Definitely · #19 08-26-2011, 08:42 PM

[quote="bassrique"]

fhm555 · #20 08-26-2011, 09:11 PM

This is what caught my attention

$17,500

for a paperwork snafu?

Sounds like our uncle is taking advantage of that kind of silliness more and more to make a Little extra coin.

A local guy was recently jumped on by the ATF and customs for bringing an old P47 back into the US with welded up dummy machine gun barrels mounted on it. They were threatening to seize his plane because he didn't have the correct paperwork for the dummy MG barrels. Last I read, he paid a big fat fine and they let him off the hook.