Gun owners - allow me to introduce my newest "assault rifle"!

[Relic]

1776 style
Hessian Jaeger Rifle reproduction
Any black powder nuts here??

Just picked this one up as a project. Apparently I'm one of the first buyers of these here as they are scheduled to be introduced to the US market soon. These are coming out of India like a lot of the historical reproductions and are to a large extent, hand made quite like the originals. I love it! The downside is to keep the prices down, they are sent unfinished. In some cases just the vent-hole needs to be drilled out, but in the case of mine, the actual lock itself needs work.

Since I'm no gunsmith and learning as I go, any advice/tips warnings are more than welcomed.
What I need to do:
- harden the frizzen. This thing is not sparking at all yet - I'm thinking that it's too soft and not giving enough friction. I'm going to try the typical quick/easy method of putting it in a bonfire and stoking it until it glows, then popping it into cold water. We'll see how that works.
- the frizzen tang on the bottom needs to be filed down as it's too tight up against the leaf spring, causing the frizzen itself to not completely clear the pan when you pull the trigger.
- drill out the vent hole. I'm told that this is deceptively easy. Just a normal bit will do. Use a punch to get an indent just forward of the indent in the pan, then carefully drill.
- shave a little bit of wood off. The originals (I think) were stocked in walnut or some other sort of darker European wood. To keep the price down, these are stocked in teak, so therefore weigh a ton. I'm going to shave this one down a bit and maybe save a pound or two.
-it needs to be browned. The barrel is high-polished and is going to look like hell in short order from fingerprint stains and such. This shouldn't be too hard to do. I've blued stuff many times, should be a very similar process.

[shadowtippy]

Nice piece. (I never thought I'd say that to a man.) The work seems easy enough, a little time consuming, though. You should be able to find info on annealing (I think it's called) metal in order to harden the frizzen. The rest seems to be pretty well straightforward work. Good luck with it.

[scottz0369]

Awesome! You're far braver than I when it comes to smithing - the trigger job on my 10/22 was the extent of my skills.
Keep us updated on the progress

[MJ5150]

You ever check out Pawn Stars and see some of those really old guns they bring in? I want a blunderbuss really bad.

-Mike

[Mark Latimour]

IIRC the word "assualt rifle" is an English translation of the German "strugengehwer" (storm rifle) which only came into use in WWII. Hence anything designed before the invention of the German weapon would not be an assualt rifle, but just a rifle (assuming its rifled!)

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

IIRC the word "assualt rifle" is an English translation of the German "strugengehwer" (storm rifle) which only came into use in WWII. Hence anything designed before the invention of the German weapon would not be an assualt rifle, but just a rifle (assuming its rifled!)

pssst.. Mark -(I was being sarcastic)

There was a time in NJ where legislation was attempted to classify a "firearm" as an assault rifle based on the size of the bullet/projectile. If passed it would have rendered this hulking thing an "assault rifle".

This one is unrifled sadly..just a smoothbore..so technically it's a "musket", the originals were rifled though. They were carried by German mercenaries from Hesse, Brunswick and a few other German territories during the US Revolutionary war by "Jaegers" which were German riflemen who's specialty it was to harrass and basically snipe away at the US troops. There were many captured by Washington's troops after the battle of Trenton. A really neat item especially for this area.

[9mmMike]

Not blackpowder but I have a hankerin' for a Sharps Carbine. Some day....

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

IIRC the word "assualt rifle" is an English translation of the German "strugengehwer" (storm rifle) which only came into use in WWII. Hence anything designed before the invention of the German weapon would not be an assualt rifle, but just a rifle (assuming its rifled!)

So a M2 Browning 50 caliber machine gun and the BAR are not Assault rifles? I'm sure the ATF would be thrilled to hear that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_B...utomatic_Rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning_machine_gun

Is this a new legal doctrine that anything invented before the term is used can not have the term apply to it?

Since they were the choice of armies for the purpose of assaults to acquire territory the definition holds sway. For the record it is a beautiful piece. The craftsmanship looks exceptional. It seems earlier German firearms were very ornate and artistic while later ones are much more utilitarian. It would be interesting to see if this was true of many German products and when the change occurred in their culture.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by burk48237

So a M2 Browning 50 caliber machine gun and the BAR are not Assault rifles? I'm sure the ATF would be thrilled to hear that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_B...utomatic_Rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning_machine_gun

No, they're not based on what they were at the time they were invented. You can reclassify them as you want, but neither was an assault rifle (and arguably neither still is! )

Is this a new legal doctrine that anything invented before the term is used can not have the term apply to it?

Is it?

Since they were the choice of armies for the purpose of assaults to acquire territory the definition holds sway.

Ah, so according the Burk doctrine, a horse and cart is now to be referred to as a SUV. /Burk Gotcha!

[Relic]

Well you also have to ask who it is that's trying to define an "assault weapon" too. The Germans invented the MP 43 in WW2 which is arguably the world's first modern assault rifle.
But then there's the state of New Jersey with their definition of what classifies something as an assault rifle, then there's the US military with their definition...etc
It can vary depending on who's defining it

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Relic

Well you also have to ask who it is that's trying to define an "assault weapon" too. The Germans invented the MP 43 in WW2 which is arguably the world's first modern assault rifle.
But then there's the state of New Jersey with their definition of what classifies something as an assault rifle, then there's the US military with their definition...etc
It can vary depending on who's defining it

Agreed. Unless of course its Burk whose defining it, then its probably just wrong!

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Agreed. Unless of course its Burk whose defining it, then its probably just wrong!

How about I just loan you two guys some dueling pistols and you both can just have a go at each other?? One last Burk vs Latimour duel to the death!

Shoot, it could be the fundraiser of the century!

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Relic

How about I just loan you two guys some dueling pistols and you both can just have a go at each other?? One last Burk vs Latimour duel to the death!

Shoot, it could be the fundraiser of the century!

In a duel he'd almost certainly have my number. I think I've put a total of 12-15 rounds through a handgun and that's all. I have fired and AK47 variant on full auto and a Browing .50cal machinegun, but notwithstanding the right to bear arms, I assume they are probably not the legal choice of weapons in the US at the moment!

[MJ5150]

You did spend some time in Iran Mark, so I bet you know your way around some weapons.

-Mike

[Relic]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

You did spend some time in Iran Mark, so I bet you know your way around some weapons.

-Mike

I'm thinking, big poofy powdered wigs, long coats, vests and breeches, silk stockings, fake moles... This could be great.
I'll sell the beer.

[Tmoney865]

The definition should not matter because of the fact that the Preamble of the Bill of Rights (conveniently removed from the study and practice books of students, law clerks, lawyers, and judges) specifically states that UNALIENABLE Rights are beyond the reach of the Government, which includes the Courts, The Judiciary.

In W. Va. Bd. of Ed. v. Barnette (currently being abused to defeat CA Prop.8) the USSCt stated that the Bill of Rights forever removed UNALIENABLE Rights from all forms of votes and political controversies, and away from the power of ALL Offices of government. So no Amendment can ever undo any provision of the Bill of Rights.

This understanding of UNALIENABLE is well reflected in the VA Const. 1776, Art. I Sec.1, that no societal contract can ever exist which denies ANY UNALIENABLE Right. Any such instruments are fraudulent in their nature.

[Lublin]

That thing is sex! Bring it up to Cherry Ridge. We'll shoot sometime. My treat.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Lublin

That thing is sex! Bring it up to Cherry Ridge. We'll shoot sometime. My treat.

Sounds good! I've got a few toys that I've been dying to try out, you're welcome to give them a go as well. Ever shoot black powder goodness?

[christoph h.]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

IIRC the word "assualt rifle" is an English translation of the German "strugengehwer" (storm rifle) which only came into use in WWII. Hence anything designed before the invention of the German weapon would not be an assualt rifle, but just a rifle (assuming its rifled!)

it's "sturmgewehr".

[Relic]

Originally Posted by christoph h.

it's "sturmgewehr".

lol, but "strugengehwer" kind of has a nice sound to it as well -it sounds like some sort of Bavarian sausage