Help me with my coffee!

[pmkelly]

I am looking to get a little more fancy with my 'joe and need some help with the gear. Who has upgraded their grinders and espresso machines? I am also interested in a combination espresso/brewer machine, but am most interested now in a good entry level burr grinder that will do espresso. My current setup is a Cuisinart brew central, a cuisinart grinder and a mr coffee espresso machine.... now you see why I need to upgrade! let me hear about your machines, likes and dislikes!

Thanks,

P@

[Chunk-O-Funk]

FWIW, I have a the Breville BCG450XL and it's a pretty good entry level grinder.
http://www.amazon.com/Breville-BCG45...1627904&sr=1-1

Digme and iamlowsound are the two coffee gurus around here. I'm sure they will be around soon.

[bwv1013]

no true coffee lover should be without a good french press in their arsenal. plenty of decent ones for under 50 bucks.

[UncleFluffy]

http://www.sweetmarias.com/

[DigMe]

I have a lot to say about this topic. Coffee is a passion of mine. I've been roasting for a while and I have a pretty nice espresso setup. I often spot my grinder in cafes and coffee shops and my Expobar heat exchanger espresso machine is capable of creating cafe-quality espresso. I'm out of town ATM and postng from iPhone so I will post again with my thoughts on the matter once I get back home.

What's your budget for grinder + machine? You need to know the maximum you have available. I'll go ahead and say now to forget the combo machines. I don't know of any that are worth it.

bc

[pmkelly]

Originally Posted by DigMe

I have a lot to say about this topic. Coffee is a passion of mine. I've been roasting for a while and I have a pretty nice espresso setup. I often spot my grinder in cafes and coffee shops and my Expobar heat exchanger espresso machine is capable of creating cafe-quality espresso. I'm out of town ATM and postng from iPhone so I will post again with my thoughts on the matter once I get back home.

What's your budget for grinder + machine? You need to know the maximum you have available. I'll go ahead and say now to forget the combo machines. I don't know of any that are worth it.

bc

awesome, and thanks for the help! I am definately in the baby steps stage of this whole process, so please be gentle! LOL! Thanks for the info on the combo machines, I was having a hard time finding one that reviews thought worthwhile. As far as a budget for this project, I think I can probably go all in for between 400 and 600...

sidebar question, if the combo machines are no good, what are you brewing your drip coffee with?

Thanks,

P@

[iamlowsound]

First, 400-600 for both? Because if that is so, you will be looking for a long time. You should be looking at 400-600 for EACH. If that is your range, look for a Mazzer Mini for a grinder, you can find one of those at the higher end of that range. That is what Brad has and he scored a killer deal on his. Also look at the Rancilio Rocky, it is at the lower end of the range. Both are great, but the mini is obviously better.

For an espresso machine look into the X5, and the Rancilio Silva. Both get great reviews, but the Silva is widely considered the best under $1000. I am not a big espresso guy, so I don't have either of these and I have never tried either, so I am going on purely reviews here.

For a drip machine, there is the Capresso. Yes, it is expensive, but it is widely considered the best drip maker ever. There is also the Krupps FMF5. Whole bunch cheaper and what I have. It makes a great cup, just don't judge it on the first 10 pots you make. I should note here that when I want a REAL cup of coffee, I go for the french press.

For a roaster, look no further than the I-roast 2. Easy to learn on, easy to use and does a great job. I should know, I have one. The draw backs are that it isn't a high volume machine, so you can't do piles of beans. I roast maybe twice a week with it, and lets face it, that is still a lot of coffee.

Some other good websites: www.coffeegeek.com and www.sweetmarias.com. I buy all my beans from SM and so does anyone else that roasts their own coffee. They have been around the longest and have the biggest selection of beans that you will find ANYWHERE. So have fun shopping and drinking and be warned that it is just as expensive as bass.

lowsound

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by bwv1013

no true coffee lover should be without a good french press in their arsenal. plenty of decent ones for under 50 bucks.

This and a burr grinder.

[DigMe]

My recommendation will not be as grim as Iamlowsounds :P

I think you will be able to get something in that price range. I'll be back home tomorrow night and will try to post some recs by end of day on Tuesday.

bc

[funkalicious101]

Holy crap. I am sure glad I'm a tea guy.

[WalterBush]

I am an espresso guy (note the avatar)...you can get great results from a sub-$400 machine as long as you get a good conical burr grinder (Capresso makes a decent one that's relatively cheap, just don't expect long years of service; available from Amazon) and good beans--I started roasting my own after buying a lot of good espresso beans from coffeebeandirect.com. Not as large a selection as Sweetmaria's, but then, I didn't know enough to know what I didn't know, and I now know that I only like a couple of varieties for espresso.

My machine is a Graggia Caprezze; it cost roughly $250. They have about 10 models with the same guts inside and different exteriors, and they're all excellent for the price. You won't be pouring Latte art with the froth they'll give you, but the espresso is excellent with a bit of practice; beans and grind are of utmost importance, and I highly recommend roasting your own. If you drink espresso, especially, the difference between 2 days and a week in the life of a bean is drastic. Don't buy anything pre-bagged in a store if you want good results, ever.

I roast my own using a West Bend Poppery II. You can get them used for $20 bucks on ebay; it's a popcorn popper. Not as nifty as a dedicated roaster, but 1/10th the cost. The tradeoff is that you can only roast a 1/2 cup of beans at a time, and you have to stay on top of the beans, which only takes about 14 minutes of your life.

You asked, I answered. iamlowsound is right, if you want, you can spend as much on coffee acoutrements as you can on a nice bass rig, but as with a bass rig, you can do very well without spending top dollar. I have a <$100 grinder, a ~$250 espresso machine, and an old popcorn popper for a roaster, and my espresso is better than any commercially sold espresso in my town of 150,000 residents.

Have fun! Even after upgrading your equipment, it'll take a bit of practice to get good results, but it's well worth the time and the bad coffee thrown down the drain.

EDIT: Combo machines won't work right, don't bother. Buy a french press for regular coffee, though why you'd want to drink the stuff after tasting the espresso that's possible with some good equipment is beyond me

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by WalterBush

I am an espresso guy (note the avatar)...you can get great results from a sub-$400 machine as long as you get a good conical burr grinder (Capresso makes a decent one that's relatively cheap, just don't expect long years of service; available from Amazon) and good beans--I started roasting my own after buying a lot of good espresso beans from coffeebeandirect.com. Not as large a selection as Sweetmaria's, but then, I didn't know enough to know what I didn't know, and I now know that I only like a couple of varieties for espresso.

My machine is a Graggia Caprezze; it cost roughly $250. They have about 10 models with the same guts inside and different exteriors, and they're all excellent for the price. You won't be pouring Latte art with the froth they'll give you, but the espresso is excellent with a bit of practice; beans and grind are of utmost importance, and I highly recommend roasting your own. If you drink espresso, especially, the difference between 2 days and a week in the life of a bean is drastic. Don't buy anything pre-bagged in a store if you want good results, ever.

I roast my own using a West Bend Poppery II. You can get them used for $20 bucks on ebay; it's a popcorn popper. Not as nifty as a dedicated roaster, but 1/10th the cost. The tradeoff is that you can only roast a 1/2 cup of beans at a time, and you have to stay on top of the beans, which only takes about 14 minutes of your life.

You asked, I answered. iamlowsound is right, if you want, you can spend as much on coffee acoutrements as you can on a nice bass rig, but as with a bass rig, you can do very well without spending top dollar. I have a <$100 grinder, a ~$250 espresso machine, and an old popcorn popper for a roaster, and my espresso is better than any commercially sold espresso in my town of 150,000 residents.

Have fun! Even after upgrading your equipment, it'll take a bit of practice to get good results, but it's well worth the time and the bad coffee thrown down the drain.

EDIT: Combo machines won't work right, don't bother. Buy a french press for regular coffee, though why you'd want to drink the stuff after tasting the espresso that's possible with some good equipment is beyond me

Good stuff right here. I should have noted that I only recommended what I have researched, within my budget. The two most important things are the the beans and the grind, get those right and you can have good results on almost anything.

A note on the poppery II, I learned on one and it was fun to roast with. I still have mine and you can have it for the cost of shipping, PM me.

lowsound

[warwick.hoy]

I have a cheapie Black and Decker Burr Grinder that was bought for me for X-mas two years ago. Works like a champ for me. I imagine the better ones adjust a little more. For my purposes it's head and shoulders over one of those blade grinders.

I bought my friend a Krups Burr Grinder for his b-day. Under 60 bucks. He loves it.

[pmkelly]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

First, 400-600 for both? Because if that is so, you will be looking for a long time. You should be looking at 400-600 for EACH....

... So have fun shopping and drinking and be warned that it is just as expensive as bass.

lowsound

I could always sell one of my 55-94s to get better coffee, but then the wife would think I have really flipped over the rocker! I can appreciate that the more you spend the better you can get, but we need to keep things in perspective... My first bass was an Ibanez soundgear!

But please keep all the great suggestions coming! With new coffee gear comes a whole new list of things to learn about... I hadn't thought much about roasting my own. Nor had i thought much about a french press... but this is the kind of stuff I need to know! keep it coming!


Thanks,

P@

[Papazita]

Maybe you need a "Crim Valet?"


http://www.tonylevin.com/miscpages/tlevcoffee.htm

[MJ5150]

Originally Posted by Papazita

Maybe you need a "Crim Valet?"

Nice! My wife and I burned up four or five of those over the years, back when you could buy them at Starbucks. Great little machines, but they could not handle pulling 10+ shots daily.

We have a Europiccola from La Pavoni. When all the conditions are right, you can not make a better cup of coffee. We've tried every machine under the sun, and the La Pavonis are the best in our opinion. The one we use is super old. I probably wouldn't buy a brand new one.

-Mike

[DigMe]

Ok, here are my recommendations for your budget:

GRINDER

First off- as has been said - the grinder is absolutely crucial to the process. The grinder is the KEY component in your espresso-making. Many have not believed and found it out after wasting money on subpar grinders and then finally getting a really good grinder and going, "Oh...so it IS the grinder." Having said that there are certainly other important components including the coffee, the espresso machine and you. There is a learning curve to making great espresso.

So with your budget you're going to need to spend the bulk of your money on the grinder to maximize the potential of your espresso. My top recommendation is to watch Craigslist in your area for a cafe-quality grinder to become available. The main cafe grinder that you'll see being sold on craigslist is the Mazzer Super Jolly. It is also rebadged under the names Astoria, Milano, Mazzer Rio, etc... It is a superior grinder to the Mazzer Mini and usually can be found used for cheaper. I previously had one but had to go back to the Mini. I hope to have Super Jolly again at some point. It's a fantastic grinder that holds it's own with the best and they regularly come up on Ebay and Craigslist but the better deals are found on Craigslist. These grinders can often be found for under $400 and sometimes as low as $200. You will most likely need to buy a new set of Mazzer burrs for $40. You might think that you don't have the room for a Super Jolly when you see how tall the bean hopper is but what you do is run it without that hopper and grind one shot at a time. The throat is big enough to fit enough beans for that without the hopper. or you can purchase a short Mazzer Mini bean hopper to use on it. It will fit.

If that does not sound like something for you there are other options. There are many grinders that use the tre spade conical burrset which is an excellent burrset for espresso albeit a bit messy and somewhat loud. Some grinders that use the tre spade burrset include:

http://www.amazon.com/Pavoni-PGC-Con...]La Pavoni PGC (La Pavoni's other home grinders are mostly crap but this one uses tre spade)

The Le'Lit PL53

and the Nemox Lux Plus

These are all grinders that share the same burrset and can get it done for espresso but have some quirks that you might find bothersome. However...on an absolute budget they are a good value.

Here are some grinders NOT to buy: anything by Braun, Krups, Mr. Coffee, Cuisinart, etc... These so-called burr grinders do not use real burrs that cut and slice but rather pseudo burrs that have little knobs that actually pulverize the coffee. This will result in a wildly uneven grind that is unsuitable for espresso.

Someone also recommended the Capresso Infinity grinder. Having had this grinder for over 5 years I can say that it is also not suitable for espresso. Some have reported getting good espresso from it in the beginning. However I can say from first-hand experience that even if you do happen to get one that will do a good job for espresso it won't last long because the metal on the burrs is very soft and wears away quickly. There was a drastic difference when I replaced the upper burr on mine last year and I can already see that the grind has changed since then as the burr is already wearing down. Mine would not make really great shots from the beginning though and I use it to grind for drip and to take with me when I travel.

ESPRESSO MACHINE

As far as the espresso machine goes you have some options there too. The best value in a budget machine hands-down right now that I know of is the Le'Lit PL041 on sale for $299 with free shipping from 1st Line. This little machine has a stainless body, chromed brass portafilter, brass boiler (better heat stability than aluminum that is found in other budget machines and fewer corrosion issues), a 3-way solenoid that relieves pressure in the portafilter after the shot is pulled and some other nice features for this price range.

However, say that you found a deal on a nice condition used Mazzer Super Jolly for $400 and you don't have $300 to spend. In that case I would say go with a Gaggia machine such as the Gaggia Espresso. I used one of those when I was getting in espresso and it can make a respectable shot. It's not as consistent as some machines because of the small aluminum boiler but I would choose it over anything sold at Starbucks or anything from the other popular budget makers like Saeco, etc.. You want a machine with a nonpressurized portafilter for sure. Gaggias have that. You can sometimes find them on Ebay for under $100.

COFFEE
For coffee I'd say that once you get your espresso setup DON'T jump right into roasting. Buy from a professional roaster for a while until you get good at pulling the shots so that you KNOW what it should taste like. If you do get into roasting this will help you a lot. Some good roasters to purchase from are:

http://www.cuveecoffee.com/ (their meritage blend is excellent for espresso)

http://www.terroircoffee.com/ No on is more freakish about quality than Terroir's George Howell

http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/ Constantly setting the standard for coffee shops worldwide.

http://www.klatchroasting.com/

I could go on because there are a lot of great boutique roasters out there. Stay away from Starbuck's and Peet's for espresso...they burn their beans all to hell and the result is a cloyingly sweet carbony taste. IMO it's NOT the way espresso should taste.

Anyway..then if you get it down and you're enjoying the product and the process you might consider getting into roasting.



I know I just wrote a novel but I could go on and on. Let me know if you have any specific questions - I've spent way too much time researching, experimenting, roasting, pulling shots, etc... so if you have a question about something I've probably had experience with it before. Also, if you see a grinder on Ebay or Craigslist and you're wondering if it's a good one send me a PM and I'll take a look at it.

This is a lot to digest but the resulting product can be absolutely scrumptious and the quest for the ultimate shot can be somewhat addictive.

This morning I had a fantastic cappuccino (my cappuccinos are a 2oz double-shot of espresso into a 4.5oz cup topped with microfoam) from a home-roasted blend of brazilian and a couple of different african beans. All the flavors really came together in this blend and this shot of espresso and the microfoam was just right. It was one of those drinks that makes it all worth it. My latte art skills are lacking but I snapped a pic with my phone anyway:




bc

[bwv1013]

that looks DELISH!

[MJ5150]

Find a local roaster for your beans. You can buy their roasts, or get them green from the roaster and roast them yourself.

I don't buy any beans on line. There are too many quality roasters in this area.

-Mike

[DigMe]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Find a local roaster for your beans. You can buy their roasts, or get them green from the roaster and roast them yourself.

I don't buy any beans on line. There are too many quality roasters in this area.

-Mike

But you live in Washington... he lives in Kansas City, MO. While there may or may not be a good local roaster in his area I assure you that Missouri likely does not have the problem that Washington has of too many quality local roasters. Our only local professional roaster here in Waco isn't that great.

bc