Hey Car Guys,...Synthetic or Non-Synthetic Oil?

[warwick.hoy]

Car = 95 Honda Accord LX Wagon
Mileage = 173,000
Engine = F22 2.2 litre
Transmisson = 5 Speed Manual

So I've owned the car since mid October and it is coming up on 3,000 miles since it's last oil change. I'm fairly certain that the previous owner had used traditional non-synthetic oils. I'm considering a switch to a synthetic.

Are synthetic oils just a bunch of marketing hype? Are there real advantages to using synthetics?

Is there any danger to making a switch on a higher mileage engine?

This car runs like a top and is well cared for,....I'd like to get another 170,000 miles out of it if I can.

[Johnny Crab]

There are advantages but some folks indicate possible leaks when changing to synth oil that "late". I've always swapped over to synth oil, trans, and rear end oil(for RWD) with no leak issues. The latest/oldest one to get swapped was getting a 73 Mercury Station wagon with 101k miles in the mid 90's. No leaks.

All recent vehicles here were acquired with 35~60k miles on them and all "swapped over to synth lubes" when we got them. I have run across non-sales folks indicating that Extended Protection Mobil 1 is what you should use with overhead cam vehicles(something about failures using their other, cheaper version). I'm not sure if Mobil has changed any formulations since "synthetic labels" can be misleading(google it). I use the EP version and don't work for Mobil or own their stock.

YMMV.

JC

[Time Monkey]

I dont buy the whole "synthetic causes leaks" crap.


I think it is told as fact by people with older cars that probably only had dino oil ran in them for god knows how long and was probably not changed often enough.

This probably led to a decent buildup of sludge around the seals which prevented the already dried out and cracked seals from leaking.

They then switched to synthetic, and it proceeded to clean out all that sludge. Over time, as the sludge went away, the synthetic started leaking through the seals that were already cracked and dry before.

In my old toyota, the first owner ran castrol (yuck.) for 192k miles, and then i got it.

I switched it over to mobil1 10-40 as soon as i got it, and it NEVER started leaking. I wrecked at 252k. Everything was switched over by then... All that happened was better gas mileage, easier starts, and lower temperatures.

Now, as far as synthetics go, Amsoil is the tops.

http://www.amsoil.com/comparison/motor-oil.aspx


Those are test results from Amsoil's site. I realize that of course they are going to post things that make them look good, but keep in mind the tests were dont independently. Every oil company claims to be the best, but who actually names names in their published test results? No one but Amsoil.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/



Really, there is no good reason not to use synthetics in a well maintained vehicle.

[lycanbreed7]

I am an independent Amsoil dealer, so I believe whole heartedly in synthetics. The only problem you will run into regarding leaks is the synthetic will clean away deposits left behind by conventional oils. This may or may not result is leaks in high mileage vehicles. Amsoil has put out some good reading material on the differences between synthetic and conventional oils. Cleaner running, better heat & friction control, longer drain intervals, to me it's a no brainer.

[Eric Perry]

I've had those leaks in a higher mileage Lexus RX300 after switching over to synthetic. Prior to that switch, the oil was changed regularly, with never any extended periods of no changes. The rear main leaked horribly following the switch.

I don't know if it was the synth that perpetuated the leak or not. What I do know is I will never switch to synth in a higher mileage car.

[Absentia]

It's an old honda, use sand as a lubricant.

[need4mospd]

This topic can easily generate 1000 opinions from armchair mechanics. Plenty of people have put 300,000+ miles on their engine with either type. IMO, it really doesn't matter as much as people seem to think it does.

FWIW, I only use synthetic because my mechanic told me a few years ago. I never bothered to care about it too much. Since synthetic supposedly allows for longer time between changes I've actually saved money using the more expensive stuff, so that's a good reason to switch if you're looking for one. I've done about 13 oil changes(every 10,000) at $35 a pop compared to conventional oil 43 times(every 3000) at $15 a pop. Saved a couple hundred bucks by running the more expensive synthetic.

[need4mospd]

Originally Posted by Eric Perry

I've had those leaks in a higher mileage Lexus RX300 after switching over to synthetic. Prior to that switch, the oil was changed regularly, with never any extended periods of no changes. The rear main leaked horribly following the switch.

I don't know if it was the synth that perpetuated the leak or not. What I do know is I will never switch to synth in a higher mileage car.

It's my professional armchair mechanic opinion that the switch to synthetic could have only revealed a problem that already existed. This could have potentially been a much bigger problem had you not switched. All strictly the opinion of a guy that knows what a car looks like.

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by need4mospd

...All strictly the opinion of a guy that knows what a car looks like.

[Randall]

I run synthetic in all of my vehicles. Better flow at low temps, longer drain intervals. If you want to keep a vehicle for a long time I think it is worth it.

[Mike N]

I run conventional in all my cars. I also go 5000 miles between changes. I've never bought into the synthetic hype and cannot justify the increased cost for it.

[warnergt]

Synthetics have two definite advantages:
1) Cold flow - the oil flows at low temperatures to quickly get all the parts
of your engine lubricated. This period is when the engine encounters the
most friction. They do this by eliminating the long molecules (i.e. paraffin)
found in regular oil.
2) Does not break down as quickly. It's not the oil itself that actually
breaks down; it's the additives (e.g. viscosity modifiers). Because
synthetic oil has a better inherent control of the viscosity by controlling
the molecules present, these viscosity modifiers are not as needed and
may not be needed at all. You can generally go further between
synthetic oil changes.

Go with the synthetic oil. It does cost more but it's a small price to pay
for increased engine life (statistically speaking; your results may vary).

[lycanbreed7]

Originally Posted by Mike N

I run conventional in all my cars. I also go 5000 miles between changes. I've never bought into the synthetic hype and cannot justify the increased cost for it.

Your smart enough to build a car to do 10.3's in the 1/4, but you don't see the advantage in synthetics. Dude every gear head rag out there has done their own build and dyno tests pretty much proving synthetics superiority over conventional oil. Do your own test. you know what car is capable of doing. Drain all the oils (engine, tranny, and rear end) one by one if you like. Note the difference in any of the passes.

[lycanbreed7]

By the way, I'm driving 7500+ miles between oil changes with no worries using synthetics, and I'd bet money my engine is cleaner.

[your idol]

as a former chrysler shop employee i will give you one word of advice.

if your vehicle started its life (first 25,000) with synthetics, stick with synthetics.
if your vehicle started with oil then stick with oil

Jerry Garcia didnt die until he did rehab. when the car gets used to something changing that something can have adverse effects. id recommend a high milage regular oil that has additives.

[warwick.hoy]

Thanks for the responses guys,....Mike N, just from the casual reading of your posts in the past I respect your opinion when it comes to cars,...I'm really trying to sift through the hype. The slight research I've done seems to favor synthetic. It also seems that a lot of the issues stemmed from initial formulations that have since be drastically improved.

FWIW the Honda has consumed about a half quart in 3000 miles. There are no puddles where I park. I check the oil at every fill up and the oil looks clean enough to drink.

It's a somewhat hard decision to make. I'm tempted to give the synthetic a try but my logical and practical side is telling me to stick with the tried and true to the point that I may forego changing the oil myself and take it to the same mom and pop lube shop the original owner always took it to (a 30 minute drive).

Lastly,@ Absentia...despite Honda's reputation I doubt I'll be making the switch from oil based lubricants to silica (sand) based lubricants.

I'm still watching this thread so keep em comin.

[pbasswil]

I only drive my little Toyota around 6 to 8,000 miles a year up here in Montréal. I change my synthetic oil once a year (just before winter, since cold starts are hard on the engine). Every six months I change the oil filter (I use a good one -- Wix; I researched it). You'd be shocked how clean looking my oil still is after a year's use! Like, not opaque black.

I like to go easy on the environment, so I'm glad of only discarding one oil change per year. And the synthetic makes it easy to start the engine even on those occasional - 30C crazy deep freeze days.

I used to happily use Amsoil, but it got insanely expensive up here, so now I'm over to Mobil 1. It's probably slightly inferior to Amsoil, but it's fine.

- pw

[Chunk-O-Funk]

I'm with Mike on this one.

Sure, synthetics are a better motor oil, but I say only use them if you have a few extra bucks to burn. Today's engines will do fine on conventional motor oil, but If you want "the best", go for synthetic.

I work at a Toyota dealership. We have a customer with an older Corolla who past the 500K mark on regular motor oil.

Toyota recommends 0-20 synthetic in their 2010 Camry.

[Pilgrim]

I have run synthetic oils and gear lubes in all my cars since 1977. I'm a thorough believer in it, and I've changed over many cars with 80 to 100K miles on them with no problem. I'm not going into detail on all the myths around it, since those are documented online. Bottom like - great stuff, good insurance, and worth running on any engine you really care about.

However, modern oils are vastly superior to the motor oils that were available when I started driving in the 60's. With a car having 173K on it, I would not go synthetic. Chances are that the motor has at most another 100K miles left, and likely less than that. My recommendation is to stay with any of the excellent major brand conventional oils, or at most one of the blends, rather than a straight synthetic. I just don't see the point in spending the extra money on an engine with that many miles.

[Ericman197]

Originally Posted by Mike N

I run conventional in all my cars. I also go 5000 miles between changes. I've never bought into the synthetic hype and cannot justify the increased cost for it.

This is exactly what I do.

One could make a very compelling argument for the technical advantages of synthetic oil, but this has little bearing on a person driving a late model economy car to work and back. For your average driver and your average car, you aren't going to see any advantages with synthetic. The differences are only going to come out in sensitive laboratory tests with engines being put under extreme stress.

The benefits of synthetic oil are just like the benefits of strictly adhering to the 3,000 mile rule.