Hipsters and ironic detachment

[Mark Latimour]

I was listening to Marc Maron's show the other day and he made the statment (paraphrasing):

"Ironic detachment is just a nother form a cowardice. A way to hide your real reaction to what you are seeing / doing."

What do you think, is doing things because they are ironically cool just a hide how you really feel about something?

[jmattbassplaya]

Define 'ironically cool'

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Define 'ironically cool'

What do you think it means?

[jmattbassplaya]

I honestly have no clue, that's why I asked

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I honestly have no clue, that's why I asked

I don't think there is a fixed definition. Its kinda like "you know it when you see it". Like a person wearing a "Bros" T-shirt under a plain flannel shirt with skinny jeans.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

I was listening to Marc Maron's show the other day and he made the statment (paraphrasing):

"Ironic detachment is just a nother form a cowardice. A way to hide your real reaction to what you are seeing / doing."

What do you think, is doing things because they are ironically cool just a hide how you really feel about something?

From a purely philosophical/analytical POV, doing anything with a deliberate, preconceived goal to be 'cool' (ironically or otherwise) would entail hiding one's feelings.

Again, if you try to deliberately dodge your inclination towards detachment (which would typically imply coolness in an ironic way, or so (I perceive) you suggest) that would in itself be ironic detachment in some capacity, so it's pretty much a vicious circle.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by champbassist

From a purely philosophical/analytical POV, doing anything with a deliberate, preconceived goal to be 'cool' (ironically or otherwise) would entail hiding one's feelings.

Again, if you try to deliberately dodge your inclination towards detachment (which would typically imply coolness in an ironic way, or so (I perceive) you suggest) that would in itself be ironic detachment in some capacity, so it's pretty much a vicious circle.

Can an inclination towards detachment be a natural state of being?

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Can an inclination towards detachment be a natural state of being?

That's, actually, my case

See, when I state the above, I feel it seems a bit ironic, or at least preconceived. Now if I go further ahead and state that this inclination is totally natural and I'm not, in any way, influenced by the fact that a certain demographic of the people surrounding me would perceive this detachment as cool, I end up sounding even more like a poseur. That's the irony of coolness that's been hardwired into our brains.

Edit: Another point is this: to our usual skeptical dishonest minds, all detachment could look like it's meant to fulfill a wish to be cool. To a trusting and honest mind, that may not be the case.

Did I just defeat my previous points? Heck. I'm a dumb philosopher. But an honest one

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by champbassist

That's, actually, my case

See, when I state the above, I feel it seems a bit ironic, or at least preconceived. Now if I go further ahead and state that this inclination is totally natural and I'm not, in any way, influenced by the fact that a certain demographic of the people surrounding me would perceive this detachment as cool, I end up sounding even more like a poseur. That's the irony of coolness that's been hardwired into our brains.

Edit: Another point is this: to our usual skeptical dishonest minds, all detachment could look like it's meant to fulfill a wish to be cool. To a trusting and honest mind, that may not be the case.

Did I just defeat my previous points? Heck. I'm a dumb philosopher. But an honest one

If you have a natural inclination towards detachment, then one would guess that your detachment is not ironic or feigned and therefore you are not a "hipster". Infact, quite the opposite, perhaps you are being a hipster by feigning attachment?

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

If you have a natural inclination towards detachment, then one would guess that your detachment is not ironic or feigned and therefore you are not a "hipster". Infact, quite the opposite, perhaps you are being a hipster by feigning attachment?

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Infact, quite the opposite, perhaps you are being a hipster by feigning attachment?

And, that is what one would be expected to be opposed to in the first place, isn't it? Feigning attachment to look cool. Now if detachment becomes coolness (and, thus, the detached state of being becomes the de facto 'attached' state of being as far as the 'hip' social trends are concerned, case in point being the grunge movement, etc.), then attachment becomes the de facto detachment. Then would I be trying to avoid detachment or attachment?

Personally, I'm trying to avoid feigning anything either way. I'd like to do what comes naturally. Now excuse me if I sound like a pretender for saying that

[blendermassacre]

Honestly, I think it's a way of skirting what is considered "cool" or not. If someone walks up to you and says "You're not cool", and your reply is "Yeah.. I know.. I'm not trying to be cool", you've eliminated the need to try to be cool.

The irony in all of this is how hard they try to appear to not be trying at all.

[PSPookie]

The true irony in the hipster's 'ironic detachment' is that the whole concept is defined by the norms which they seek to defy. So, in their attempt to defy the mainstream their actions are actually being dictated by the mainstream (if y = 1/x then when x changes, y must also change even though they are inversely related).

Or something.

I don't really care anyway, but I thought I should let you guys know that I don't care.

[dullsilver_mike]

I disagree: true irony =/= detachment, in fact you have to specifically invest in the idea that something is not cool, before you can wear it for the sake of being ironically cool and that investment means you're not detached.

That said, I think irony doesn't even describe the hipster's taste in the first place--I think they actually like the stuff they buy (genuinely like it) even as they think it's kind of lame. I like a lot of lame stuff, that doesn't make me ironic, it just means my taste is kind of lame.

Hipsters then repeat this mantra of irony so that you won't realize that it's not ironic, buy that their taste is actually just kind of lame.

So there, I took the greatest jab of all at hipsters by asserting that they are, in fact, not even ironic. For the record, they like most of the least lame stuff around too: craft beer, live music, and pretty girls.

[dbhokie]

I just don't care. I'm too damn cool.

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

"Ironic detachment is just another form of cowardice. A way to hide your real reaction to what you are seeing / doing."

What do you think, is doing things because they are ironically cool just a hide how you really feel about something?

I'm going to make a distinction between "ironic detachment" and "doing things because they are ironically cool". The latter (doing things) may not be an attempt to hide feelings, it may just be a form of humor. For example, wearing a "three wolf moon" t-shirt or a trucker cap can be funny (to those who are in on the joke) beacuse they are so cheesy and ugly. It's poking fun at people who don't find those items cheesy or ugly.

But to me, "ironic detachment" is either a way to hide feelings, or worse, a way to hide ignorance and apathy. For example, suppose many of my peers are worked up about some issue (global warming, government debt, income inequality, you name it). Suppose that I don't express an opinion about the issue one way or the other, and try to act like it is somehow cool or ironic not to care about it. I don't see anything funny about that. To me, it's just an excuse to be lazy, not find out the facts and form an opinion on the issue.

My $.02

[sloasdaylight]

Hipsters are the 11th plague.

[iamlowsound]

Originally Posted by dullsilver_mike

I disagree: true irony =/= detachment, in fact you have to specifically invest in the idea that something is not cool, before you can wear it for the sake of being ironically cool and that investment means you're not detached.

That said, I think irony doesn't even describe the hipster's taste in the first place--I think they actually like the stuff they buy (genuinely like it) even as they think it's kind of lame. I like a lot of lame stuff, that doesn't make me ironic, it just means my taste is kind of lame.

Hipsters then repeat this mantra of irony so that you won't realize that it's not ironic, buy that their taste is actually just kind of lame.

So there, I took the greatest jab of all at hipsters by asserting that they are, in fact, not even ironic. For the record, they like most of the least lame stuff around too: craft beer, live music, and pretty girls.

I dress somewhat like a hipster and I like the clothes.

lowsound

[Rick Brienzo]

Wearing a dark blue suit and tie is just as cowardly as wearing a three wolf T shirt, pink jeans, and hiking boots. Maybe more-so. In fact wearing anything at all is a way to hide ourselves from the outside world.

We should all be naked with government issue sombreros to shield ourselves from the sun.

[echoSE7EN]

Whatever...I'm going to Hot Topic to buy an ironically cool REO Speedwagon T-shirt...cause I want you to think that I think they suck, but secretly, I love me some REO.