Hit a research brick wall. (Stupid Racists)

[McHaven]

I'm researching African American history and Jim Crow law in Nacogdoches Texas from 1870-1950. It is impossible to find any document talking about Nacogdoches. I'm trying to provide as many real specific sources as possible. Finding a published source is like trying to find a Nazi war criminal. Not too many are throwing themselves out for public viewing.

Tomorrow, I hit the oral histories. (None of them transcribed either, so my only option is to listen to them all) I may also go and try and do some new interviews in the community. People that lived through segregation are slowly dying off and I need to make sure people realize how evil and mean whites treated African-Americans just 60 years ago. I'm trying to just bring light to injustice, but no one wanted to ever talk about it. Sigh.

I've been working in an African-American cemetery as well. It was city land that was totally ignored and abandoned since at least 1977. City never maintained it. It was totally overgrown and I've been working to clear it out, with the help of local churches and students. The city refuses to help. (They're still racist a-holes) First gravestone we uncovered was an old lady's grave. Her epitaph? "Love one another and solve your troubles". I'm just trying to make that happen.


Sorry, just frustrated with my research right now. Wanted a distraction and a vent.

[Dr. Cheese]

Segregation did not end 60 years ago. I would not be surprised if there was not a fair amount of segregation lingering into the 1970s. Segregation was outlawed nationally in 1965, in many small towns, there was up to a ten year lag in actually ending things. There should be plenty of people over fifty who can talk about things.

As for actual segregation statutes, look in the court house and library. Contact the local NAACP to see what the key legal struggles were against segregation. They can put you in contact with people who were active in struggle against segregation at the time. Of course, read the local newspaper's old reels or microfiche. The editorial pages probably talked about segregation a great deal.

Nagodoches probably had a White Citizens Council, KKK, or maybe John Birch Society branch. If you know people who know people, you can find some information.

[McHaven]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Segregation did not end 60 years ago. I would not be surprised if there was not a fair amount of segregation lingering into the 1970s. Segregation was outlawed nationally in 1965, in many small towns, there was up to a ten year lag in actually ending things. There should be plenty of people over fifty who can talk about things.

As for actual segregation statutes, look in the court house and library. Contact the local NAACP to see what the key legal struggles were against segregation. They can put you in contact with people who were active in struggle against segregation at the time. Of course, read the local newspaper's old reels or microfiche. The editorial pages probably talked about segregation a great deal.

Nagodoches probably had a White Citizens Council, KKK, or maybe John Birch Society branch. If you know people who know people, you can find some information.

Yup, de facto segregation runs rampant in this town because of the extreme racism and violence towards African Americans over the last 100 yearas. I've got appointments with the African American Heritage Project, as well as the NAACP here. I just hate that there's no hard physical record, because my professor is such a stickler.

Sidenote on the KKK in Nacogdoches: the Principal of the white high school is said to have been tied to the KKK and the mascot for the school up until the late 1970s was the White Dragon.

I knew you'd be the first to respond Dr Cheese

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by McHaven

Finding a published source is like trying to find a Nazi war criminal.

Then I suggest you check South America.

On topic:

My bet is that the local papers didn't talk much about segregation and racism, given the social tone of the period he's talking about.

Also, I don't know if you've ever had the opportunity, but speaking to some of these people from the "greatest" generation can yield some real interesting insights into the way our culture has shifted in the last forty years, and also the ways it has stagnated.

[Dr. Cheese]

One more suggestion is that your time frame is too long. If you want to get info on the development of segregation ordinances, focus on the period from 1890-1920. This was when most segregation law was written.

Do you want to do an over view of "race relations," a history of discriminatory law, or a paper on resistance to segregation? It sounds like elements of all three are in your agenda. You need to pare this down, and focus more narrowly to increase your chances of success.




As for the person who bets that there will not be much on segregation in the papers, be glad I'm not a gambling man!

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

As for the person who bets that there will not be much on segregation in the papers, be glad I'm not a gambling man!

In the editorials, mind you.

Also, check out Birth Of A Nation if you haven't already. Its long, but fairly essential to both film history and a depiction of racism in your time frame.

[McHaven]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

One more suggestion is that your time frame is too long. If you want to get info on the development of segregation ordinances, focus on the period from 1890-1920. This was when most segregation law was written.

Do you want to do an over view of "race relations," a history of discriminatory law, or a paper on resistance to segregation? It sounds like elements of all three are in your agenda. You need to pare this down, and focus more narrowly to increase your chances of success.




As for the person who bets that there will not be much on segregation in the papers, be glad I'm not a gambling man!

I agree on my time period. I'll probably cut it down to your suggested period.
I'm doing this for an urban history course. I'm approaching the idea of where/why/how African-Americans settled where they have, and what has kept them there since then. So, mainly how the government of Nacogdoches and Texas have systematically discriminated and persecuted African-Americans, pushing them to settle where they have. (basically Jim Crow and segregation law) and what cultural, and economical developments in that area have kept African Americans living in the same area. So, the impact of Jim Crow on modern Nacogdoches as well. Make sense?

I haven't actually done much written history of this, but its something I care about and I'm tired of seeing the historical black neighborhoods being trivialized and pushed aside as unimportant. I've got my official proposal due and was doing my initial research today. Blegh.

[ehque]

Any chance you could transcribe the recorded oral histories (or pay someone to do so, or assign it as homework to freshies)? Certainly someone out there might be able to use it again, and it would save you considerable time.

[jrthebassguy]

While I can't offer any specific advice, I have to say kudos on working on a very important but oft-neglected part of our history. As a student myself, I'm currently taking an internship at the EEOC's Houston district office, and I have to say it's definitely been an eye opener in ways I didn't necessarily expect.

[hrodbert696]

May I ask why you chose Nacogdoches in particular, if you don't have any sources? You may need to broaden your project to encompass the rest of the county or perhaps more of East Texas generally. I'm reminded of Jan Gross' book on the Holocaust, Neighbors, which was principally about one town in Poland but got a lot of perspective through records from the surrounding towns.

Cutting down your chronological time frame only makes sense to me if you have too MANY sources to handle in a manageable way -- seems to me you have the opposite problem.

I don't know where all you're looking for the sources, but another area that might be useful would be church archives. I don't know what the state of record-keeping was in the African-American churches of your period, but they may have stuff that wouldn't be in the newspapers or town archives. Property tax archives and all would probably also be useful for tracking where people actually lived.

This is all well off my field, but I'm a medievalist, so I thoroughly sympathize with trying to study an issue from an inadequate source base. Good luck!

[AnchorHoy]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

Property tax archives and all would probably also be useful for tracking where people actually lived

On a related note, if time and opportunity permit, you might check into real estate records as well.

As an example, Levittown PA, right across the river from me, had what were called "restrictive covenants" written into the property deeds right up until (IIRC) the early 1960's. "No Blacks" allowed to buy property there under any circumstances, and that restriction was laid out explicitly in writing

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

In the editorials, mind you.

Also, check out Birth Of A Nation if you haven't already. Its long, but fairly essential to both film history and a depiction of racism in your time frame.

I stand by what I said. Integration and segregation were probably the subject of more than a few editorials in most Southern towns and cities.

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

May I ask why you chose Nacogdoches in particular, if you don't have any sources? You may need to broaden your project to encompass the rest of the county or perhaps more of East Texas generally. I'm reminded of Jan Gross' book on the Holocaust, Neighbors, which was principally about one town in Poland but got a lot of perspective through records from the surrounding towns.

Cutting down your chronological time frame only makes sense to me if you have too MANY sources to handle in a manageable way -- seems to me you have the opposite problem.

I don't know where all you're looking for the sources, but another area that might be useful would be church archives. I don't know what the state of record-keeping was in the African-American churches of your period, but they may have stuff that wouldn't be in the newspapers or town archives. Property tax archives and all would probably also be useful for tracking where people actually lived.

This is all well off my field, but I'm a medievalist, so I thoroughly sympathize with trying to study an issue from an inadequate source base. Good luck!

Big +1, whenever I run into a research brick wall I broaden the scope of the paper.

Also OP whats your thesis? What are your trying to show?

[McHaven]

Originally Posted by ehque

Any chance you could transcribe the recorded oral histories (or pay someone to do so, or assign it as homework to freshies)? Certainly someone out there might be able to use it again, and it would save you considerable time.

I'll be trying transcribing a lot on my own I imagine. If not full transcription, at least notable stories and the time on the tape

[McHaven]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

May I ask why you chose Nacogdoches in particular, if you don't have any sources? You may need to broaden your project to encompass the rest of the county or perhaps more of East Texas generally. I'm reminded of Jan Gross' book on the Holocaust, Neighbors, which was principally about one town in Poland but got a lot of perspective through records from the surrounding towns.

Cutting down your chronological time frame only makes sense to me if you have too MANY sources to handle in a manageable way -- seems to me you have the opposite problem.

I don't know where all you're looking for the sources, but another area that might be useful would be church archives. I don't know what the state of record-keeping was in the African-American churches of your period, but they may have stuff that wouldn't be in the newspapers or town archives. Property tax archives and all would probably also be useful for tracking where people actually lived.

This is all well off my field, but I'm a medievalist, so I thoroughly sympathize with trying to study an issue from an inadequate source base. Good luck!

Focusing on Nacogdoches because its required for the course. Case Studies in Urban Nacogdoches History.

[DigMe]

I was born in Nacogdoches. I don't really have much to add beyond that. You mighttyl to the public library and ask them if they have a historian and then speak to the historian personally face-to-face.

bc