Home schooling outlawed in California?

[Vandelay]

"On Feb. 28, Judge H. Walter Croskey of the Second District Court of Appeals in Los Angeles ruled that children ages six to 18 may be taught only by credentialed teachers in public or private schools — or at home by mom and dad but only if they have a teaching degree. Citing state law that goes back to the early 1950s, Croskey declared that 'California courts have held that under provisions in the Education Code, parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children.' Furthermore, the judge wrote, if instructors teach without credentials they will be subject to criminal action."
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...720697,00.html

For the time being, there are no plans to enforce this ruling, pending appeal. And "the Governator" says he'll submit legislation to overturn it. But still, wow, talk about interfering with parental rights.

[Jared Lash]

While I agree that the parents need to show some competency or at least demonstrate a curriculum (or else what stops a parent from just leaving a kid at home under the guise of "home schooling") but this is ridiculous. While I'm loathe to propose it, a series of standardized tests at various points should be more than enough proof to satisfy the government.

[peterbright]

I think the standardized tests are already mandated most places

[Guiseppe]

GRRRR. I'm not sure whether to attribute this to "big brother" or what, but it's one more indicator that government is outgrowing its britches. My ex and I home schooled both of my kids, with the end result of both of them winding up WAY ahead academically and being a lot more 'adult oriented' for their future than most 'kids' their age (18 and 20 now). While I readily admit that it's not for everyone, to me the time we invested paid off in spades with both of my kids being much more mature and ready for their future than most high school grads.

[Vandelay]

I'm not sure whose mistake it is: a "loose cannon" judge, or incompetent state legislators who haven't setup the necessary rules to protect home schooling. In any case, mistakes were made.

[guy n. cognito]

Guys, this is California.......this isn't surprising!

While I totally disagree with homeschooling on a number of fronts, I would defend parents rights to screw up their own children in any way they see fit.

[Stanley Design]

I know most people that are homeschooled do it via satellite feed/internet, and still have to attend specific classtimes. They are taught by people with teaching degrees.

[Illbay]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

While I agree that the parents need to show some competency or at least demonstrate a curriculum

Teacher's unions have fought tooth and nail to defeat any measure in any state that requires that they "show competency or proficiency." My wife's a teacher (fortunately in the right-to-work state of Texas) and knows all about this firsthand.

If "professional" teachers aren't required to show competency, why must parents?

[Illbay]

Originally Posted by peterbright

I think the standardized tests are already mandated most places

For STUDENTS, not teachers.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Vandelay

I'm not sure whose mistake it is: a "loose cannon" judge, or incompetent state legislators who haven't setup the necessary rules to protect home schooling. In any case, mistakes were made.

The answer is both and neither.

After actually reading through the whole article (and a more in depth one in the Sacramento Bee) I get the feeling that this ruling is being blown out of proportion. No laws are being reinterpreted, and home schooling practices shouldn't change as a result. The law passed in the 50's will remain in place with parents being asked to designate their homes as "private schools" or hiring credentialed tutors if they are credentialed themselves.

From all accounts this appears to be an end-around to try and remove a child from an abusive home where the children were supposedly "home schooled".

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

While I totally disagree with homeschooling on a number of fronts, I would defend parents rights to screw up their own children in any way they see fit.

As I've said on this topic before, I've taught kids who were homeschooled up until high school and the majority 6 out of 8 by my count were among my best and most well adjusted students.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Illbay

Teacher's unions have fought tooth and nail to defeat any measure in any state that requires that they "show competency or proficiency." My wife's a teacher (fortunately in the right-to-work state of Texas) and knows all about this firsthand.

If "professional" teachers aren't required to show competency, why must parents?

I can't speak on the policies of Texas. In fact, my only experience as a permanent teacher was in a private school so my experiences are not reflective of what things are like in public schools.

I can say that my time spent subbing in public schools makes me think that its all a waste of time anyway. For someone who values education as much as I do, that's a sad realization to come to, and perhaps I need a better viewpoint than as a substitute, but it was enough to know that if I ever return to teaching it won't be in a public school.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

My wife has a degree, not in teaching, but a degree none-the-less. We are planning on home schooling. I don't like this. Not at all.

Having a degree doesnt mean much, i've got one, does that mean i would be able to teach well? Nope!

Im not for homeschooling at all, if your kid needs a "special" or "custom" environment to learn, thats not going to be helpful in the real world. Yeah, if your in a class full of idiots and the teacher isnt paying 100% attention to you, what do you do? Buckle down and get on with it. Its because people get given these 'privelages' early on that they'll expect them later. Work for your merits.

However, I do also agree that it is up to the parents to choose how to teach (or whatnot) thier kids. So, while im not for home schooling, the right to be able to do it should be there as long as there are strict rules surrounding standardised testing of students.

[HaVIC5]

The law has been on the books since the 1950's...and hasn't been enforced for the past 50 years. I doubt this will change anything.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Thank you for your wonderfully positive insight today.

You would prefer to send you child to a school where they can be painfully average and really don't have a custom learning experience tailored to their exact needs and be able to move on a faster pace if they like? No thanks.

No, which is why I pay a premium to live in the best school zone in the state of TN, and one of the best in the country. Plus, I actually intend to be involved with my daughter's education, despite the fact that she isn't being taught in my living room. Just imagine......

Would you prefer for your child to be taught by someone with absolutely no teaching background or experience, being excluded from interaction with other children, using a questionable learning materials and being taught life lessons that are totally inapplicable in the real world? No thanks.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Paying a PREMIUM to live in a better school district is worthless if the teacher can't dedicate more than 5 minutes a day to your child per class. A classroom can only move as fast as it's mean student.

Who says a pupil has to move at the same speed as the rest of the class? We always had further things we could move on to when ahead. New subjects to get into. Didnt need the teacher to tell us everything.

And we had it pretty bad when it came to 'bright' ideas from the school. They decided to stick the smarter kids with the scum kids (you know, the majority of the dumb ones were the type who do nothing but play up, are scum of the earth but always manage to blame it on some 'illness' ). That way, the school saw it as an average class. So the teacher interaction time the smarter pupils saw was next to none. We turned out just fine...

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

We aren't the religious home schoolers, a strict agenda and APPROVED course plan will be used.

Just wanted to add that im glad to hear that part. The zealous religious home schooling types scare the bajeeses out of me!

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Intermural sports and kids groups fix the social interaction portion you are concerned about.

We aren't the religious home schoolers, a strict agenda and APPROVED course plan will be used.

What life lessons are learned in middle school and grade school?

Teachers that get hired for these jobs only really have teaching degrees, it doesn't mean they are a good teacher or are qualified because they passed a test to graduate college. This is also their job, it doesn't mean they care about your child even doing well. I am not saying a majority of teachers just want to cash a paycheck, but a I can only remember a handful of teachers in high that actually liked or cared about their students.

Paying a PREMIUM to live in a better school district is worthless if the teacher can't dedicate more than 5 minutes a day to your child per class. A classroom can only move as fast as it's mean student.

I am not letting my kids get "screwed" with a painfully average education.

Well, your wife may not be a good teacher either, and your kids will have the same teacher for their entire school career. Sounds great.

Children learn how to deal with that "average" student, and learn how to excel despite that "handicap." Guess what? Those average students go on to be average adults, and will still be encountered by your child in the real world. Your child will still need to learn how to excel in that environment.

I had no problem excelling in a traditional school environment. AP classes, honors courses, after hours advanced tutoring. My mother was actually INVOLVED in my education and stayed in contact with my teachers. Didn't hold me back in the least. Plus, I've actually learned how to interact with people and deal with those that might be considered less-than-average.

Life lessons are learned at all stages in life. Assumptions to the contrary are misinformed, at best.

[fenderhutz]

If we are both members in 20 years we'll see the results then.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Having a degree doesnt mean much, i've got one, does that mean i would be able to teach well? Nope!

Definitely not, but neither does have a teaching credential. I was talking to a woman yesterday who was talking about her experience in college when she got her credential. She said that her classes taught her very little about how to actually teach students, and that after doing lots of "lesson preparation" in her credential program, she found out when she got a job teaching that she didn't have to do any lesson prep because between the textbooks and the state mandates, all of the prep was already done.

I definitely think that there are circumstances where homeschooling is better than public schools and vice versa. I was a product of both private school (elementary) and public schools (middle and senior high) and I definitely feel well educated and able to express myself in as such both verbally and orally. On the other hand I have friends who were public schools who could barely read when they were 14...and I've seen very poorly educated homeschoolers as well, where the parent's meant well but the child just didn't take to the material.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by thesteve

Definitely not, but neither does have a teaching credential. I was talking to a woman yesterday who was talking about her experience in college when she got her credential. She said that her classes taught her very little about how to actually teach students, and that after doing lots of "lesson preparation" in her credential program, she found out when she got a job teaching that she didn't have to do any lesson prep because between the textbooks and the state mandates, all of the prep was already done.

Im not sure how the teaching degrees work in the US, but over here alot of the time is spent on placement, teaching kids while shadowing another teacher. (just wondering more than anything)

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Im not sure how the teaching degrees work in the US, but over here alot of the time is spent on placement, teaching kids while shadowing another teacher. (just wondering more than anything)

It may have changed over time. The woman I talked to got her credential some 20-30 years ago...BUT, I would say that many of the teachers in US public schools are probably close to her in age anyway.