Homeowner facing MS-13 gang fires warning shots into his lawn...

[bassrique]

...and is promptly arrested. The rifle was legal and the homeowner had no criminal record, while the "MS-13" gang tend to be vile skells.

Still, discharging a firearm in such a situation may be illegal and irresponsible under such circumstances. How aggressive were the gang members? We'll see how this story shakes out over time. For now, I give the benefit of the doubt to the Father who seemingly was defending his family.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/09/...me-with-ak-47/

Long Island Man Arrested For Defending Home With AK-47
Says Many Gang Members Were Coming After His Family

September 7, 2010 7:19 PM

George Grier said he had to use his rifle on Sunday night to stop what he thought was going to be an invasion of his Uniondale home by a gang he thought might have been the vicious “MS-13.” He said the whole deal happened as he was about to drive his cousin home.

“I went around and went into the house, ran upstairs and told my wife to call the police. I get the gun and I go outside and I come into the doorway and now, by this time, they are in the driveway, back here near the house. I tell them, you know, ‘Can you please leave?’ Grier said.

Grier said the five men dared him to use the gun; and that their shouts brought another larger group of gang members in front of his house.

“He starts threatening my family, my life. ‘Oh you’re dead. I’m gonna kill your family and your babies. You’re dead.’ So when he says that, 20 others guys come rushing around the corner. And so I fired four warning shots into the grass,” Grier said.

Grier was later arrested. John Lewis is Grier’s attorney.

“What he’s initially charged with – A D felony reckless endangerment — requires a depraved indifference to human life, creating a risk that someone’s going to die. Shooting into a lawn doesn’t create a risk of anybody dying,” Lewis said.

Grier said he knew Nassau County Police employ the hi-tech “ShotSpotter” technology in his area and that the shooting would bring police in minutes. Cops told Guzman he was very cooperative.

Grier also said he was afraid the gang outside his house was the dreaded MS-13. And Nassau County Police Lt. Andrew Mulraine, head of the gang unit, said MS-13 has 2,000 members in the county.

“They’re probably the most organized. They almost have a military hierarchy within the gang, so they are the most organized gang we encounter on a daily basis,” Mulraine said.

You may think a person has the right to defend their home. But the law says you can only use physical force to deter physical force. Grier said he never saw anyone pull out a gun, so a court would have to decide on firing the gun.

Police determined Grier had the gun legally. He has no criminal record. And so he was not charged for the weapon.

That ShotSpotter technology pinpoints where a gun has been fired within 35 feet. Police said it also detected two other shootings in nearby Roosevelt that night.

[C.Linton]

"YOU KIDS GET OFFA MY LAWN!!!"

[elgecko]

SPIN FILTER: To be accurate, the only mention of MS-13 in the article was that was who the homeowner "thought" they were. Nothing in the article indicates that the guys were actually gang members.

[Relic]

This is bullshite.

I, Relic stand with this guy. Now get the hell off my lawn.

[ADbassman]

Oh goody, a thread about gun rights.

Just reading that article, I'm not convinced we have all the facts. Take that for what you will.

[Kwesi]

If the article is to be believed I'm entirely on the side of the Father... legally speaking. However street-wise what he did may have put his life and the life of his family in jeopardy if MS-13 are as vicious as pretty much every source ever says they are. I'm not saying what he did was wrong because for all we know his life could've been in danger at that exact moment, but I am saying that he and his family should be put in protective custody.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by ADbassman

Oh goody, a thread about gun rights.

Just reading that article, I'm not convinced we have all the facts. Take that for what you will.

+1. That article is sounding pretty spintastic.

[Relic]

yeah the article (as usual) is written to cause outrage and seems to conveniently leave out too much detail. Still, if 20 guys were standing around my house shouting stuff at me, I'm thinking that they're not asking for me to come and play bingo with them.

[XigXag]

Bingo is huge w gangsta's

[pacojas]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

If the article is to be believed I'm entirely on the side of the Father... legally speaking. However street-wise what he did may have put his life and the life of his family in jeopardy if MS-13 are as vicious as pretty much every source ever says they are. I'm not saying what he did was wrong because for all we know his life could've been in danger at that exact moment, but I am saying that he and his family should be put in protective custody.

+1

[254 stringer]

i live in texas i would fire my "warning" shots off into the crowd of people in my driveway instead of the grass and would still get off in court

[MakiSupaStar]

Sadly this read like some creepy fetish forum letter. I love the detail about the shotfire technology.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Relic

yeah the article (as usual) is written to cause outrage and seems to conveniently leave out too much detail. Still, if 20 guys were standing around my house shouting stuff at me, I'm thinking that they're not asking for me to come and play bingo with them.

I understand that and my inclination is, naturally, to sympathize with the guy. But it sounds like we're only hearing his version of events, and a truncated one at that.

[Dr. Cheese]

Having worked for a while as a security guard decades ago, I remember being trained to never shoot warning shots. The bullets have to end up somewhere, and can easily harm the innocent. If one needs to fire a weapon, to be legally safe, you have to believe that your life or someone else's life is in danger. If the danger is at that level, then deadly force is justified. A warning shot, by its nature, signifies that one is using deadly force in a non-lethal situation.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

If the article is to be believed I'm entirely on the side of the Father... legally speaking. However street-wise what he did may have put his life and the life of his family in jeopardy if MS-13 are as vicious as pretty much every source ever says they are. I'm not saying what he did was wrong because for all we know his life could've been in danger at that exact moment, but I am saying that he and his family should be put in protective custody.

if his life wasn't in jeopardy it certainly is now.....they know where he lives and feel they have a beef with the guy.....coming from a place where weapons are allowed for sport and not self defense i feel for the dude....the law here pre-supposes that gangs of hostile men will give you lots of time to call the cops before they attack,and that the cops will actually show up before you're dead......waiting ones turn to become a victim is no option at all.....

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

if his life wasn't in jeopardy it certainly is now.....they know where he lives and feel they have a beef with the guy.....coming from a place where weapons are allowed for sport and not self defense i feel for the dude....the law here pre-supposes that gangs of hostile men will give you lots of time to call the cops before they attack,and that the cops will actually show up before you're dead......waiting ones turn to become a victim is no option at all.....

That's all the more reason that if one is going to pull a gun on a criminal, one needs to be ready to take a lethal shot. There is nothing to be gained in giving a killer an excuse to kill by just making him mad.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

That's all the more reason that if one is going to pull a gun on a criminal, one needs to be ready to take a lethal shot. There is nothing to be gained in giving a killer an excuse to kill by just making him mad.

While I agree with you suppose the man felt that his life may have been in danger but wasn't prepared to take a lethal shot? Besides that with 20+ people he'd have to have an AimBot and a turbo controller to just go off and handle 'em all

[syciprider]

You don't fire warning shots.

You call the cops and stay in your house. If the "gang" comes to your door announce the fact that the cops are on their way. If they still break your door down you can definitely argue that you are in fear for your life and proceed to ventilate the people who come through the threshold. Bonus points if you kept the 911 operator on the line the entire time this is going down.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

While I agree with you suppose the man felt that his life may have been in danger but wasn't prepared to take a lethal shot? Besides that with 20+ people he'd have to have an AimBot and a turbo controller to just go off and handle 'em all

IF he wasn't prepared to shoot, he should have left his gun inside. If he simply felt he was outgunned, then he shouldn't have confronted them out from with his gun. He would have done better to take cover, call the cops, and hunker down.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

IF he wasn't prepared to shoot, he should have left his gun inside. If he simply felt he was outgunned, then he shouldn't have confronted them out from with his gun. He would have done better to take cover, call the cops, and hunker down.

Ah, that would've been better. Probably what I would've done if you add some girly screams in there.