Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Off Topic [BG]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Off Topic [BG] Non-music-related discussion and chat


Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 07-06-2010, 09:59 PM
jive1's Avatar
Registered User

Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alexandria,VA
Send a message via AIM to jive1
Supporting Member
Homeowners Associations Foreclosing on Homes

Sign in to disble this ad
This is from http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...078864&sc=emaf

Quote:
Not So Neighborly Associations Foreclosing On Homes
by Wade Goodwyn

June 29, 2010
Capt. Mike Clauer was serving in Iraq last year as company commander of an Army National Guard unit assigned to escort convoys. It was exceedingly dangerous work — explosive devices buried in the road were a constant threat to the lives of Clauer and his men.

He was halfway through his deployment when he got a bolt from the blue — a frantic phone call from his wife, May, back in Texas.

"She was bawling on the phone and was telling me that the HOA [homeowners association] had foreclosed on our house, and it was sold," he says. "And I couldn't believe that could even happen."

Clauer had a hard time understanding what his wife was saying. His $300,000 house was already completely paid for. Could it be possible that their home was foreclosed on and sold because his wife had missed two payments of their HOA dues?

In many states it is not difficult for an HOA to foreclose on a member's home for past dues even if the amount owed is just a few hundred dollars.

"I was really in a hurry trying to get home before my family was living on the streets," Clauer says.

Sold For A Steal
But by the time he got back to Texas, it was too late. The Clauers' four-bedroom, 3,500-square-foot home had been sold on the courthouse steps for just $3,500 — enough to cover outstanding HOA dues and legal costs.

The new owner quickly sold it for $135,000 and netted a tidy profit.

"Basically it's everything to us," Clauer says. "Having a house like this paid for was huge for us, for our retirement plans. We thought we were so far ahead, and now it's like we're starting from the beginning."

Clauer's $300,000 home was completely paid for when his HOA foreclosed on it because his wife had missed two association payments. The 3,500-square-foot home was sold for $3,500 on the courthouse steps.
Lawyers for the HOA say that while Clauer's case is regrettable, it was his and his wife's fault for not paying their dues in a timely manner.

"The fact of the matter is, the laws of the state of Texas allow the homeowners association to file assessment liens on properties who haven't paid their assessments, and they also allow foreclosure on those liens," says Patrick Whitaker, who represents the HOA. "And the homeowners association followed the letter of the law."

Beg For Mercy
And in 33 states, an HOA does not need to go before a judge to collect on the liens.

It's called nonjudicial foreclosure, and in practice it means a house can be sold on the courthouse steps with no judge or arbitrator involved. In Texas the process period is a mere 27 days — the shortest of any state.

David Kahne, a Houston lawyer who advises homeowners, says that in Texas, the law is so weighted in favor of HOAs, he advises people that instead of hiring him, they should call their association and beg for mercy.

"I suggest you call the association and cry," he says.

If a homeowner misses a couple of association dues payments, the $250 or $500 they owe often becomes $3,000 after the association's lawyers add their legal fees, Kahne says.

It's not the HOA that has to pay the lawyer's bill but the delinquent homeowner. If the homeowner wishes to contest and loses, the owner is on the hook for legal fees that could run deep into the tens of thousands of dollars.

Kahne says that as the economy has gone under, HOA management companies and lawyers have been making millions off homeowners through this foreclosure process.

"We're having literally thousands of lawsuits filed over very small amounts of money," Kahne says. "And those very small amounts of money rapidly become large amounts of money when the association attorneys add their bills."


Suddenly faced with a demand that they pay $3,000 immediately or lose their home, many disbelieving homeowners don't know where to turn.

With the recession, foreclosure filings for delinquent HOA assessments in Texas have increased from about 1 percent of all home foreclosures to more than 10 percent currently, according to the industry.

'Won't You Be My Neighbor'
Over the past 20 years, HOAs have exploded across Texas. While there are 1,100 municipalities, there are now 30,000 HOAs. And these associations have far more power to take away a citizen's home than any city or county in Texas.

The perception that the balance of power has swung too far toward HOAs has begun to permeate the Texas Legislature. Reform legislation has passed the Texas House of Representatives, but no bill has been able to make it through the state Senate.

Basically it's everything to us. Having a house like this paid for was huge for us, for our retirement plans. We thought we were so far ahead, and now it's like we're starting from the beginning.

"Associations are a collection of neighbors," says Republican state Sen. John Carona, who represents Dallas. "The goal has to be to work well together — have a harmonious community — and to create a lifestyle that people enjoy and want to be a part of."

In addition to representing Dallas, Carona owns the largest HOA management company in the country — Associa, which has more than 100 offices, 6,000 employees and 7,000 HOA clients in 30 states and Mexico.

Carona defends the rights of HOAs to foreclose for delinquent dues, even for small amounts.

"If an association did not have a means, a forceful means, to collect that money from any homeowner who, for whatever reason, couldn't pay, it places an unfair burden on every other owner in that association," Carona says. "And a burden, quite candidly, that those other members didn't bargain for."

There have been complaints that some members of HOA boards have bought HOA-foreclosed properties for a pittance, and then sold them for a hefty profit.

In Texas, there are no laws to prevent this. Carona says the best way to address this apparent conflict of interest is not by passing new state laws but by letting the HOAs handle it internally through modification of the association's constitution.

"I think that an association can avoid that type of thing by adopting conflict-of-interest rules," he says.

Closing Loopholes
Republican state Rep. Burt Solomons from North Texas has been trying in vain to pass HOA reform legislation. He says during state legislative hearings there was no shortage of outraged homeowners, but he acknowledges that the HOAs, their property management companies and their lawyers fought back effectively.


Pending a legal case, Clauer, his wife, May, and his daughters, Kirsten and Kamryn, are still living in the home that was foreclosed on.
Solomons says HOA board members and advocates testify and say, "'We need the power to access and fine and foreclose, and we need the money. And we look for people in violation of the rules and restrictions that we put in place.'"

"And they drive around in golf carts looking for them," Solomons says.

In theory, HOAs are only supposed to foreclose for nonpayment of dues. But Solomons says that through a loophole in Texas law, in practice, HOAs can foreclose for nonpayment of HOA fines, too. Solomons watched with frustration last year as his reform bill died in the Senate.

Legal Recourse
As for Clauer, he's gone from fighting in Iraq to fighting his HOA in Texas. And if he weren't in the military, Clauer would have no legal recourse at this point.

But in a spasm of gratitude in 2003, Congress passed the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, which was supposed to prevent nonjudicial foreclosures against military personnel fighting overseas.

"Hopefully we're going to get the house back," Clauer says. "That's what we're fighting for — that the judge will understand that this was illegal. That the HOA can't do what they've done."

If a federal court decides in favor of the Clauers, the foreclosure and subsequent sales of their home would have to be unwound and the deed returned to them. If they lose, the captain's nice, paid-for, suburban home would be lost to his family forever. The case goes to court early next year
This is crazy. And the fact that the same people who assess fines and collect dues are able to buy the homes for pennies and sell them for a profit is just absolutely wrong.
  #2  
Old 07-06-2010, 10:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Send a message via AIM to Thunderscreech Send a message via MSN to Thunderscreech Send a message via Yahoo to Thunderscreech Send a message via Skype™ to Thunderscreech
I think we need a federal ban on Homeowner's Associations...

but, regardless, this is effed up. A guy who puts his life on the line for those pigs deserves better.
__________________
Returned in a limited capacity due to noise
  #3  
Old 07-06-2010, 10:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Anasleim, CA
That's a bunch of BS. I'll stick to mowing my own lawn.
  #4  
Old 07-06-2010, 10:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Waco, TX
Horrible.

bc
__________________
Check out my photoblog: www. focusedonthelight. net
  #5  
Old 07-06-2010, 10:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dayton Ohio
I heard this story on NPR. Absoloutely disgusting. A pox on the HOA's.
__________________
I am your hated enemy,The friend that makes you start again
Just when you thought it was finally the end
  #6  
Old 07-06-2010, 10:39 PM
jive1's Avatar
Registered User

Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alexandria,VA
Send a message via AIM to jive1
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgecko View Post
That's a bunch of BS. I'll stick to mowing my own lawn.
They usually don't mow your lawn. You pay them money to go around and make sure you mow your lawn. According to the article, a HOA can foreclose on a home for unpaid fines. So someone on the board wants your house. He levies a fine for your grass being too long. You contest, but during the time you are seeking recourse, the fines build up and then they foreclose on you. The guy on the board buys the house for a pittance like $500, and then sells it to another guy on the board for $100,500 who then sells it on the open market for $200,000. 100,000 reasons to screw your neighbor, and you won't go to jail for it.
  #7  
Old 07-06-2010, 10:49 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Anasleim, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jive1 View Post
They usually don't mow your lawn. You pay them money to go around and make sure you mow your lawn. According to the article, a HOA can foreclose on a home for unpaid fines. So someone on the board wants your house. He levies a fine for your grass being too long. You contest, but during the time you are seeking recourse, the fines build up and then they foreclose on you. The guy on the board buys the house for a pittance like $500, and then sells it to another guy on the board for $100,500 who then sells it on the open market for $200,000. 100,000 reasons to screw your neighbor, and you won't go to jail for it.
I know, it's aggravating!

I just can't see the appeal of owning a condo...but maybe I'm too busy painting my house bright orange, letting my grass grow too long, and installing a satellite dish.
  #8  
Old 07-06-2010, 11:01 PM
NickInMesa's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Supporting Member
Yeah, HOAs are nazis. My wife and I moved to an acre lot with no HOA. We have a dirt road. We've got blue street signs (meaning private road in AZ).

One pissed me off because I kept parking my 3rd car in my street. We have 3 cars because 2 are personal, 1 is business. We had a 2-car garage. They kept sending me letters.

Well, that was when cameras still had film, I bought a 36 print roll, popped it in the Nikon and made sure I filled the darn cameras with photos showing all sorts of things to be done around the community.

Some of the stuff was messy. Broken sprinklers. Cracked street. Etc... With a nasty comment on the back of each photo. Sent the photos, kept the negs just in case. Never heard from them again.
__________________
Bassists who drive a Volvo club #1
  #9  
Old 07-06-2010, 11:05 PM
jive1's Avatar
Registered User

Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alexandria,VA
Send a message via AIM to jive1
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgecko View Post
I know, it's aggravating!

I just can't see the appeal of owning a condo...but maybe I'm too busy painting my house bright orange, letting my grass grow too long, and installing a satellite dish.
My mom owns a condo, and at least with her fees she has her utilities covered, use of the pool, snow shoveling, gutter cleaning, roofing maintenance, lawn mowing, and leaf removal. Compared to some HOA fees I've seen in some neighborhoods, she's getting a bargain and actually getting services in return for her money.
  #10  
Old 07-06-2010, 11:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston & Arizona, USA
I can't believe (actually I can) they did this to one of our servicemen and his family. The folks who took their place should get spanked but good.

I just finished reading about 25 pages of covenants on some land I wanted to buy. I am trying to find a place where I can put up a simple dwelling or a special made small mobile home so I won't have to be homeless again,

This is isolated rural land and many of the restrictions make sense but others make it sound like this is some suburban tract house subdivision. Heck most of the parcels are 30-40 acres and the smallest allowed is about 5 acres. Still they have managed to set it up such that I can't afford to build according to their rules.

There is no active association but any owner or group of owners can take legal action against a violator. I can't afford to be on the receiving end of something like that just because someone doesn't like me or wants to force me out an get my land cheap.

I keep running into this stuff everywhere I look.

Bah! Humbug!
__________________
I am tough. I will survive and prosper.
Spawn of the Mothman - #28 of Infinity
  #11  
Old 07-07-2010, 01:16 AM
MakiSupaStar's Avatar
The Lowdown Diggler
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Supporting Member
Criminal
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perry View Post
Oh, and I'm clearly retarded.


Down and Dirty | hi life in low fi

http://soundcloud.com/downanddirty/king-midas
  #12  
Old 07-07-2010, 01:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles
While the HOA's followed the "letter of the law", the law has problems with it. I suspect the HOA board and the lawyers visit a house of worship regularly. How do they sleep at night?
  #13  
Old 07-07-2010, 01:53 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston & Arizona, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbo View Post
While the HOA's followed the "letter of the law", the law has problems with it. I suspect the HOA board and the lawyers visit a house of worship regularly. How do they sleep at night?
Ambien.

Seriously, these are the same lawyers and boards who make up the association rules. These rules are often huge documents set up so the owners will end up breaking rules just by trying to live. It reminds me of the credit card agreements that had universal default clauses along with fees and penalties for everything.

I don't know who came up with the non-judicial foreclosure thing but from their point of view it was a stroke of genius. Many of these folks are bottom feeders dressed up as high class because they have a few stolen dollars to throw around. Don't get me started.

Peace,
S
__________________
I am tough. I will survive and prosper.
Spawn of the Mothman - #28 of Infinity
  #14  
Old 07-07-2010, 02:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: AZ
WHHHAAAT?!?!

When I have to deal with an HOA someday... God help them.
__________________
Traben Club #51 Praise & Worship #617 AZ Bands #3
  #15  
Old 07-07-2010, 03:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Leuven, Belgium
Send a message via MSN to drteeth
This is just insane. Criminal. Disgusting.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSPookie View Post
I bludgeon any potential attackers with my enormous e-penis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XigXag View Post
Hunting wild vegetarians is cruel.
  #16  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:02 AM
Relic's Avatar
That's the way uh huh uh huh I like it..
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Robbinsville, NJ
Supporting Member
I hate the whole HOA thing. It really borders on criminal. My parents-in-law have to deal with an HOA where they live and the stuff they tell me really just makes me want to kick the crap out of somebody...
We're house-hunting at the moment and that's one of those things that's makes me instantly rule out a house. NO HOA's.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6jase5 View Post
Cleavage heals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by machine gewehr View Post
I happened to have a better experience, a peegasm.
  #17  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Send a message via AIM to Thunderscreech Send a message via MSN to Thunderscreech Send a message via Yahoo to Thunderscreech Send a message via Skype™ to Thunderscreech
If I knew I could get away with it without losing my house, I would troll the bastids to no end. Of course this only works in the reality that is Thunderscreech's mind...

I don't really understand how they can legally do this. But then again I guess you're not supposed to.
__________________
Returned in a limited capacity due to noise
  #18  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:17 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ont
thats just messed up.

I am disgusted.
__________________
I like stuff
  #19  
Old 07-07-2010, 07:06 AM
Pat's the best!
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Northern Virginia, USA
Send a message via AIM to Philbiker
Regrettable situation. HOAs are usually a good thing; one of these days I'll volunteer for my local HOA. I've been saying that for years.

I'd love to hear the HOAs side of the story; that NPR piece seems pretty one-sided
  #20  
Old 07-07-2010, 07:13 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Send a message via AIM to Thunderscreech Send a message via MSN to Thunderscreech Send a message via Yahoo to Thunderscreech Send a message via Skype™ to Thunderscreech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbiker View Post
Regrettable situation. HOAs are usually a good thing; one of these days I'll volunteer for my local HOA. I've been saying that for years.

I'd love to hear the HOAs side of the story; that NPR piece seems pretty one-sided
You are correct, usually. But I think the HOA's side of it is best chalked up to just straight greed. After all, what other motive can you find?
__________________
Returned in a limited capacity due to noise
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Follow TalkBass on Twitter   Visit TalkBass on Facebook  

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 PM.




Copyright 2011 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar? Visit our new sister site TalkGuitar.com [beta]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.