Horrible Story...

[Tituscrow]

Sickening. I often wonder how lawyers take defence cases like this. She must have been seriously screwed in the head. The 'alternative lifestyle' hints at something a bit odd...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-14104194

[Mark Latimour]

Lawyers are usually allocated by the court. In most cases the barrister will be doing duty work when the case comes across their desk. In the UK barristers cannot generally refuse a case without good reason.

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Lawyers are usually allocated by the court. In most cases the barrister will be doing duty work when the case comes across their desk. In the UK barristers cannot generally refuse a case without good reason.

Yeah, I had an inkling of the mechanics of how lawyers are allocated, and thanks confirming what I thought.

I guess what I meant was, how do the lawyers emotionally detach themselves from such horrendous crimes, especially in a case like this if they are parents themselves. I'm not suggesting that childless people are somehow less sensitive, but surely something like this would resonate a bit more if they were the parent of a four year old girl? What constitutes a 'good reason' for saying "nah, I'll pass on this one thanks".

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Yeah, I had an inkling of the mechanics of how lawyers are allocated, and thanks confirming what I thought.

I guess what I meant was, how do the lawyers emotionally detach themselves from such horrendous crimes, especially in a case like this if they are parents themselves. I'm not suggesting that childless people are somehow less sensitive, but surely something like this would resonate a bit more if they were the parent of a four year old girl? What constitutes a 'good reason' for saying "nah, I'll pass on this one thanks".

Never really done criminal law so can't really comment. However she did enter admit to the act plea so it's not like the barrister was arguing she didn't so it.

I suppose it's the same deal with doctors. If she needed an operation a doctor would be ethically required to do their best to save er life / ensure she survived it.

[Phalex]

Lil Help Mark?

I do not understand the words "Burn" as in where the girl was drowned, nor do I get the meaning of "Boiler Suit, or "Skip".

Could you lend a hand to my reading comprehension? I surely would appreciate it!

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Never really done criminal law so can't really comment. However she did enter admit to the act plea so it's not like the barrister was arguing she didn't so it.

Good point. Still, my reaction would be 'hang the murdering witch', which I suppose is not the desired mindset of an impartial lawyer. Someone somewhere argued that she was not guilty of 'murder', but 'culpable homicide on the grounds of diminished responsibilty'. Sounds like a technicality to get crackpots off a murder charge.

[Tituscrow]

Edit : not to disrespect mental illness in any way, shape or form. Just curious as to how killing someone is perceived differently depending on the accused state of mind.

[Jimbob Jones]

Boiler suit = overalls

skip = dumpster

I'm confused about the 'burn' part aswell...

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Good point. Still, my reaction would be 'hang the murdering witch', which I suppose is not the desired mindset of an impartial lawyer. Someone somewhere argued that she was not guilty of 'murder', but 'culpable homicide on the grounds of diminished responsibilty'. Sounds like a technicality to get crackpots off a murder charge.

I suspect that's code for she's be in am institution for a very long time.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Edit : not to disrespect mental illness in any way, shape or form. Just curious as to how killing someone is perceived differently depending on the accused state of mind.

That's a fundamental point of criminal law. The crime is defined by the act and the intent. Ones mental state affects intent.

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

That's a fundamental point of criminal law. The crime is defined by the act and the intent. Ones mental state affects intent.

But the 'act' is still the same, with a dead kid the result. Hmmm. And is this plea changing abused much to get murderers lighter convictions/sentences? (Mental Hospital as opposed to Prison). I know a detailed psychological report is needed before a case comes to court, but it all seems so hard to measure/quantify.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by Jimbob Jones

Boiler suit = overalls

skip = dumpster

I'm confused about the 'burn' part aswell...

Aha! Thank ya sir!

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

But the 'act' is still the same, with a dead kid the result.

Yes...

And premeditated murder, murders of passion, and involuntary manslaughter all result in the same results... but do you believe they should all be treated the same under the law?

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Ones mental state affects intent.

Twinkies come to mind? No offense, but lawyers are at the bottom of the food chain.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Quickie

Twinkies come to mind? No offense, but lawyers are at the bottom of the food chain.

No offense taken. I've seen your posts.

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Yes...

And premeditated murder, murders of passion, and involuntary manslaughter all result in the same results... but do you believe they should all be treated the same under the law?

No, of course I don't, but thank you for pointing out how that could be inferred from my comment. I guess it's such an emotive minefield, that unless you actually have to live through an experience like that, you really don't understand...I know I don't. ( and i mean 'you' generally, not 'you' aborgman). Which is why murder lawyers have to be utterly impartial and objective. Just saying that I dont think I have that in my make up.

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

I suppose it's the same deal with doctors. If she needed an operation a doctor would be ethically required to do their best to save her life / ensure she survived it.

That's basically it. The duty of a defense lawyer (here in the US, not sure how it works elsewhere) is to make the state prove its case. It isn't to show that the accused didn't commit the crime. We're supposed to be innocent until PROVEN guilty, and we're entitled to a lawyer to make sure the state presents enough evidence to prove guilt.

With that said, it would still turn my stomach.

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

That's basically it. The duty of a defense lawyer (here in the US, not sure how it works elsewhere) is to make the state prove its case. It isn't to show that the accused didn't commit the crime. We're supposed to be innocent until PROVEN guilty, and we're entitled to a lawyer to make sure the state presents enough evidence to prove guilt.

With that said, it would still turn my stomach.

That's what I was angling at...glad it's not just me!

[onosson]

For those still wondering:

A "burn", Scots Gaelic: "allt" (anglicised as "Ault/alt"), used for smaller rivers and larger streams, also once widely used in England, now mostly in placenames especially the north, and sometimes spelled "bourne", e.g. Bournemouth and Ashbourne. In Scotland examples include Coalburn, Bannockburn, Aultmore.

Source: List of rivers of Scotland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[MatticusMania]

I heard someone mention Twinkies, and Im kinda hungry after reading about the fat acceptence club... anyone gotta spare?