Is This Humane?

irishpride28 · #1 03-24-2010, 05:44 PM

Hey guys

I am a Junior in high school, and after we get back from spring break our biology class is scheduled to undergo 3 weeks of preparation what's called 'Science Night', which is basically our version of a science fair. I have elected to perform a physical experiment rather than a research paper, because something I can go hands-on in is always more interesting to me.

My project I have proposed is called : The effects of Exercise on Brain Development

The gist of my experiment is this:
3 mice are exposed to daily exercise (wheel, ball, pipes/tunnels in cage, etc.) while another 3 in a separate cage are not. The exercise-exposed mice will be put through 10 mins of exercise in the ball each, per day. The other mice will not. At the end of class each day, each mouse will be run through a cardboard maze, using a strongly-scented food (i.e. peanut butter) as a lure. I realize that all of the mice will begin to learn the maze, but the objective of my experiment is to observe whether or not the excersized mice will learn the maze faster.

Now, I thought this was all fine and dandy, and even got it signed and approved by the head of the science department at my high school (experiments involving animals must be approved by the head). When I relayed the information to my girlfriend, however, she immediately said "Those mice are just gonna sit in their cage?? That is so mean!"

My question is, is this crossing the line in terms of humane treatment of animals? Or is it acceptable in the name of science? I can see from both sides, but i'd like some outside influence and opinions as well

Sorry for the long post, thanks guys!!
Brendan

geeza · #2 03-24-2010, 05:46 PM

How big will the cage be?

FL Knifemaker · #3 03-24-2010, 05:46 PM

The do nothing mice should be given some sort of video game to keep them from vegging out

drteeth · #4 03-24-2010, 05:48 PM

Sounds pretty humane to me.

And:

http://neuro.cjb.net/cgi/content/abstract/25/38/8680
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/23/13427.full

Not sure about the validity, but at least someone has been researching this.

**jmattbassplaya** · #5 03-24-2010, 05:55 PM

Sounds humane to me. Are you feeding them? Yes. Giving them a warm place to sleep? Yes. Should be good to go!

LiquidMidnight · #6 03-24-2010, 05:56 PM

Regardless of any general feelings either way about animals in research, if you could convince a collegiate IRB of the need to have a control group, which judging by your research design and hypothesis you'd need, I don't see why it should be a problem for a high school experiment.

J. Crawford · #7 03-24-2010, 05:59 PM

Since when do we listen to our girlfriends anyways?

LiquidMidnight · #8 03-24-2010, 06:04 PM

P.s. If you still have a moral qualm about not allowing the one group to exercise, you could always have both groups exercise but manipulate the amount of time the two groups exercise. The issue is that the second group will need to have a very large amount of exercise compared to the first group, because it could be argued that your manipulation would not be strong enough, which may result in a type II error (i.e., your manipulation did have an effect, but it couldn't be statistically detected). You can always overcome weaker manipulations with larger sample sizes, but that probably wouldn't be realistic with the amount of mice you'd need.

irishpride28 · #9 03-24-2010, 06:06 PM

The mice are in 15-gallon tanks with screen tops, given ample food daily, with shelters for them to sleep in. each tank will hold 3 mice, which according to some searches i did on google is an appropriate amount of space. I think I'm good to go on this, thanks guys!

irishpride28 · #10 03-24-2010, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drteeth

Sounds pretty humane to me.

And:

http://neuro.cjb.net/cgi/content/abstract/25/38/8680
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/23/13427.full

Not sure about the validity, but at least someone has been researching this.

These links are great, thanks so much!

elgecko · #11 03-24-2010, 06:27 PM

They'd probably be fed to pet snakes without the science gig...not a bad gig.

irishpride28 · #12 03-24-2010, 06:41 PM

Well ironically, I have a 4 1/2 foot corn snake that I plan to feed them to after the experiment so... at least they're not going to waste!

Radical Edward · #13 03-24-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpride28

The mice are in 15-gallon tanks with screen tops, given ample food daily, with shelters for them to sleep in. each tank will hold 3 mice, which according to some searches i did on google is an appropriate amount of space. I think I'm good to go on this, thanks guys!

Yeah, it's fine.Plenty of people leave mice in cages with nothing to exercise themselves. However, if they have energy they're going to get it out by running around their cage or otherwise, regardless if they have a wheel.. so I dunno how well it can be a control group unless you inhumanely forced them to not exercise at all. :/
Sorry. Hope this helps to answer your question, though.

irishpride28 · #14 03-24-2010, 06:56 PM

I know that they can become active, but I think that the availability of exercise wheels and toilet paper tube tunnels etc. will translate to a higher level of fitness/active-ness for those mice.

TortillaChip520 · #15 03-24-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Crawford

Since when do we listen to our girlfriends anyways?

Exactly, you're a man. We know more about science and stuff, cuz we're more logical and junk. Don't listen to that feeble woman.

Radical Edward · #16 03-24-2010, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpride28

I know that they can become active, but I think that the availability of exercise wheels and toilet paper tube tunnels etc. will translate to a higher level of fitness/active-ness for those mice.

I suppose that's an experiment of it's own, even. I just took meat and put it in a jar with coke and one with diet coke and seen which deteriorated faster for High School Science class. That was fun AND disgusting. ^_^

Radical Edward · #17 03-24-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TortillaChip520

Exactly, you're a man. We know more about science and stuff, cuz we're more logical and junk. Don't listen to that feeble woman.

You know... there ARE girls on here. I see you!!!

irishpride28 · #18 03-24-2010, 07:06 PM

Well technically you don't see him, you read him...

TortillaChip520 · #19 03-24-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikaela Ellinge

You know... there ARE girls on here. I see you!!!

Hey, what are you doing out of the kitchen???

I'm sorry, i couldn't resist

On a less chauvinistic note, what your girlfriend thinks is "mean" and what is deemed "inhumane" are too different things. Sure, you aren't walking the mice and making sure they are getting proper nutrition, but you could be feeding them to a boa constrictor, which still wouldn't be inhumane.

Radical Edward · #20 03-24-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpride28

Well technically you don't see him, you read him...

I see him, alright.