I Hate PayPal

searchfunction · #1 09-02-2011, 10:09 AM

I have spent the last few weeks in a PayPal claim/dispute with another TB'er over a bass I sold him. He claims the Lull bass I sold him had major external damage, frozen or broken truss rod and on & on. He also said his guitar tech talked to Mike Lull and he said if the rod is frozen- $200 repair. If the rod is broken- $500 for a new neck. When I got the bass back yesterday, Guess what? No external damage and after 15 minutes and some penetrating oil, truss rod and nut is like brand new! I can get at least 2 revolutions both ways. Buyer also said the neck was shimmed. The shim turned out to be a Mike Lull Custom Guitars business card signed by Mike Lull- .012 inch thick.
During the claim process, PayPal got an initial statement from me and that's it for three weeks. I offered to pay for half of the repair then I offered to pay for the full repair. Nope. Buyer wanted a full refund. I don't know what BS they got from the buyer and his guitar tech but is clearly "Buyer's Remorse" to me. PayPal is 100% for the buyer, and if a claim is filed against you, the seller, just give a refund and save yourself weeks of hassle and BS.

ric stave · #2 09-02-2011, 10:14 AM

Sucks to hear that happened here on TB.

hdracer · #3 09-02-2011, 10:19 AM

Just one more reason why I do not take PayPal.
USPS money order. Cash it, put the cash in your pocket, ship product, deal done.

Rockmusician · #4 09-02-2011, 10:19 AM

I am not a fan of PayPal either. Several years ago, I purchased a 1978 Fender Jazz for $1,200. My PayPal account was charged twice and it took more than 6 months to get the credit. I recently started using PayPal again. After a couple of transactions, I received a notice that I was approaching my limit because my account wasn't verified. They asked for my bank account number in order to verify me. I refused to give it to them because I have been the victim of identity theft 4 times in the last 3 years. Then they sent me an email stating that they could verify me if I apply for a PayPal credit card. I refused to do that also. I do not need another credit card. So now I am at the point where I can no longer use PayPal. Doesn't the fact that my transactions went through without any disputes verify that I am who I say I am? I emailed PayPal several times to try to resolve this and all have gone unanswered.

**baba** · #5 09-02-2011, 10:22 AM

True. Absolutely no seller protection whatsoever on Paypal. They suck.

bassmonkeee · #6 09-02-2011, 10:42 AM

How about a name of the Talkbasser you dealt with? I certainly don't want to deal with him on a deal. It doesn't look like you've left him any feedback.

Webtroll · #7 09-02-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmonkeee

How about a name of the Talkbasser you dealt with? I certainly don't want to deal with him on a deal. It doesn't look like you've left him any feedback.

that doesn't sound like a good idea, i think this should be handled through channels and feedback rather than calling anyone out

searchfunction · #8 09-02-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmonkeee

How about a name of the Talkbasser you dealt with? I certainly don't want to deal with him on a deal. It doesn't look like you've left him any feedback.

I'll PM you. As far as feedback, I just got the bass back yesterday and I can't figure out what to say without cursing. When I had the bass for sale on TB, he never posted just PM'ed me.

TolerancEJ · #9 09-02-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webtroll

that doesn't sound like a good idea, i think this should be handled through channels and feedback rather than calling anyone out

+1

searchfunction · #10 09-02-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webtroll

that doesn't sound like a good idea, i think this should be handled through channels and feedback rather than calling anyone out

You are right. No public disclosure of buyer. You can PM me though.

Clark Dark · #11 09-02-2011, 11:05 AM

did you post pics of the instrument before you sold it ?
can we see them ?

deedub72 · #12 09-02-2011, 11:06 AM

Sorry to hear your troubles, Lord knows I have had my fair share with pay pal. They blow dead bear...They have have been holding $2,000 of my money for about 8 months now...this wasn't even for a purchase thru TB, evilbay or anything of the sorts. I was buying a guitar from a store so I gave my buddy the money the deal fell through and he sent it back via pay pal. Somewhere along the line they froze my business acct and have not released my money.

I am about ready to file a lawsuit against them...I have had other issues too, I sold a guitar to a guy in CA and had to get the police involved (useless by the way) he kept the guitar then filed a claim with his CC company and I got ripped there too; $950 plus out the guitar...I think I am going to open a merchant account through another source.

CrackBass · #13 09-02-2011, 11:07 AM

Paypal has gotten terrible. Google "Paypal sucks" there are forums with hundreds of thousands of members devoted to exposing the shifty business practices of Paypal.

That said Paypal is 100% for the buyer --- when you're the seller. When you're the buyer they lean the other way. Usually in the event of a dispute, Paypal's standard operating proceedure is to seize any money that they can and hold it for 1-6 months. (they also charge you for this "service")

I avoid paypal whenever I can.

BTW not sure this is the right forum, but I'm not a mod so.....

Clark Dark · #14 09-02-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockmusician

I am not a fan of PayPal either. Several years ago, I purchased a 1978 Fender Jazz for $1,200. My PayPal account was charged twice and it took more than 6 months to get the credit. I recently started using PayPal again. After a couple of transactions, I received a notice that I was approaching my limit because my account wasn't verified. They asked for my bank account number in order to verify me. I refused to give it to them because I have been the victim of identity theft 4 times in the last 3 years. Then they sent me an email stating that they could verify me if I apply for a PayPal credit card. I refused to do that also. I do not need another credit card. So now I am at the point where I can no longer use PayPal. Doesn't the fact that my transactions went through without any disputes verify that I am who I say I am? I emailed PayPal several times to try to resolve this and all have gone unanswered.

call them, I did. The number for PP can be found on the ebay help page.

bal704 · #15 09-02-2011, 11:10 AM

Agree with the OP that it sounds like buyers remorse. I've seen it a few times. Paypal requires they send it back to you in order to get a refund. I usually tell the buyer to send it back to me (on their dime), and once I confirm the defect I'll issue a full refund. If I don't confirm the defect, there's a 25% restocking fee for wasting my time.

I haven't had anything returned yet. Lots of buyers remorse out there.

Johnny Alien · #16 09-02-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdracer

Just one more reason why I do not take PayPal.
USPS money order. Cash it, put the cash in your pocket, ship product, deal done.

And that right there is exactly why i don't use MO as a buyer. I have only been ripped off twice and both times through money orders. I was told that postal money orders had some federal protection behind it but it turns out that they are just like any other money order. Essentially you are giving cash to someone and trusting them. Paypal can suck sometimes from a seller perspective but it is still safer than any other method. As a buyer using Paypal backed with a credit card is about as secure as it gets and I have had to use them to help me on more than one occasion. As a seller I describe well, I take photos of the packing and I ship using secure trackable methods. That doesn't help with buyers remorse but in those cases I just refund and get the item back. Paypal helps with that as well since they need to prove they shipped it back before the refund goes through.

jabsys · #17 09-02-2011, 11:12 AM

I'll only use paypal for cheap items because of crap like this, buyer can spew whatever lies they like and paypal sides with them every time.

i_got_a_mohawk · #18 09-02-2011, 11:15 AM

Don't like it? Don't use it.

Problem solved.

You say you needed to use some oil to get it moving, maybe his tech didn't want to toy with a more expensive bass. Maybe he was expecting one that was working.

I would be put off by things like that too.

The shim, you could have explained it was a card.

The damage, one man's playing wear is another mans damage. Paypal would have asked for pictures of the damage.

I like being able to make transactions where my ass is covered. I've been burned before in cash/postal order transactions, not everyone is honest. It's just a sad thing that it works both ways, people will can be dishonest and abuse middle-man companies, and sometimes they will.

It does sound like a case of buyers remorse here. Just a shame he had to abuse the system like that. Of course, it could be slightly more legit than you are making out. If I got a bass that was meant to be in fine working order, I would expect the truss rod to be working/not jammed. External damage, well, unless is was mint, is speculative!

bassmonkeee · #19 09-02-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webtroll

that doesn't sound like a good idea, i think this should be handled through channels and feedback rather than calling anyone out

Hence my "Since you don't appear to have left any feedback."

The feedback system only works if people actually use it for negatives as well as positives. I would have blasted the ass with a negative if he pulled that stunt with me. But, now that I know who it is, I certainly even entertain any possible offers from him.

rmars · #20 09-02-2011, 11:27 AM

I once worked for a business and we sold some brand new, in the box exercise equipment on Ebay. The buyer payed with Paypal and left good feedback once he received the product stating how happy he was with it. A few months later he contacted Paypal and told them he never received the product. Even thought we had tracking info and the proof of good feedback Paypal took his side and refunded his money! Freakin' Crazy!