I Wonder How Many are Surprised At This

Dr_Funkdamental · #1 10-14-2011, 05:52 PM

Detectives lied to meet quotas

Ive always tried to have respect, even though this has happened to some of my friends coming up. I think of things like this when so many ppl like to bring up jail and prison statistics and about how every person in there deserves it and are criminals. Maybe you will think twice.

DeathFromBelow · #2 10-14-2011, 06:31 PM

I'm not surprised.

tekdiver500ft · #3 10-14-2011, 06:32 PM

I'm not even a little surprised. I've experienced this time and again.

StyleOverShow · #4 10-14-2011, 06:36 PM

Think about the number of innocent people that have been executed....

Lonesomedave · #5 10-14-2011, 06:44 PM

just one more reason to legalize 'em all.

drugs are not the problem... the War on drugs is the problem.

all victimless crimes should be eliminated... drugs? legalize them.... prostitution... legalize it.

whatever consenting, willing adults want to do that does not hurt other people should not be a crime

ps- edit- and all people who are in jail for drug crimes should be immediately pardoned and released.

knumbskull · #6 10-14-2011, 06:58 PM

any kind of numbers-driven system in areas of medicine, policing, or teaching seems to be pretty flawed, I think... i say this having discussed it with professionals in all of these fields. I'd be glad to hear from TBers who work in them.

duff beer · #7 10-14-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

I'm not even a little surprised. I've experienced this time and again.

Really?? Just how many times is "time and time again"??

Jim Nazium · #8 10-15-2011, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knumbskull

any kind of numbers-driven system in areas of medicine, policing, or teaching seems to be pretty flawed, I think...

I don't think it's limited to those areas, it's just that the consequences are most tragic in those. People respond to the incentives that are given to them. In my job, we decided to grade managers on how many times they missed a deadline. So, they all asked for their deadlines to be extended. Then we decided to grade them on how many extensions they asked for. So they started setting their deadlines 12 months out for things that should take 3 months... It goes on. I'm not saying we shouldn't measure performance, but it's important to create a measurement system that drives the right behavior. Hypothetically, how might we measure police performance other than by number of arrests? Maybe number of conviction minus 2x the number of acquittals?

(Note: I'm trying to steer clear of social / political issues to stay within forum guidelines and avoid anther ugly thread)

Relic · #9 10-15-2011, 06:28 AM

Between stuff like this, faulty eyewitness testimony, biased juries, and a host of other things, I'm absolutely sure that there are more than a few innocent folks in prison. Doesn't surprise me in the least.

Dr. Cheese · #10 10-15-2011, 06:29 AM

What would really surprise me would be detectives really suffering for what they have done, and the system being cleaned up.

sandmangeck · #11 10-15-2011, 06:31 AM

I'm sure it happens alot more then you think. It's sickening. Hopefully they get what they deserve when they get (if) to prison.

fhm555 · #12 10-15-2011, 06:43 AM

I fished a lot when I lived in Florida and one of the regulars on the pier was a plainclothes guy who came up through the ranks from patrol. I once asked him about quotas and he said his department didn't have actual quotas, but your arrest record was part of your performance eval. He said you were not required to make X number of arrests (or tickets in patrol), but if you didn't make an unofficial minimum you would not advance or get pay raises.

I had a lawyer tell me way long time ago that the bulk of citations for traffic violations are about filling the coffers of whichever governmental body runs the force issuing those citations and has dickall to do with safety.

Lonesomedave · #13 10-15-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

What would really surprise me would be detectives really suffering for what they have done, and the system being cleaned up.

+1

sure, i meant what i said about a lot less things being crimes.

but when this kind of utter corruption and disregard for the individual comes to light, there should be no limits on the punishment for the cops involved.

life imprisonment would not be too harsh.

cops have a joke about giving false testimony... they call it "testilying"... makes you think.

as a libertarian, i am just appalled by this... as i was by the judge in Chicago (or wherever it was) who was locking up kids in a private prison when he knew they were innocent, just to get kickbacks from the company which ran it-- one kid committed suicide because of it!--.... throw 'em all in jail and throw away the key!

Papa Dangerous · #14 10-15-2011, 09:25 AM

I do not even have to read the story behind the link to believe it. I am not surprised at all.

**cheezewiz** · #15 10-15-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knumbskull

any kind of numbers-driven system in areas of medicine, policing, or teaching seems to be pretty flawed, I think... i say this having discussed it with professionals in all of these fields. I'd be glad to hear from TBers who work in them.

+1. Quotas are the devil.

Root 5 · #16 10-15-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

drugs are not the problem... the War on drugs is the problem.

all victimless crimes should be eliminated... drugs? legalize them.... prostitution... legalize it.

whatever consenting, willing adults want to do that does not hurt other people should not be a crime

The USA has more people in prison for minor drug offenses than all of Western Europe has incarcerated for ALL offenses. And Western Europe has a much larger population.

And I'm not surprised at all the police lied. You're dealing with fallible human beings. Just because they have a badge doesn't mean they're more truthful and moral.

This is one reason I never judge when someone ends up in prison under questionable evidence.

Root 5 · #17 10-15-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

but when this kind of utter corruption and disregard for the individual comes to light, there should be no limits on the punishment for the cops involved.

life imprisonment would not be too harsh.

cops have a joke about giving false testimony... they call it "testilying"... makes you think.

as a libertarian, i am just appalled by this... as i was by the judge in Chicago (or wherever it was) who was locking up kids in a private prison when he knew they were innocent, just to get kickbacks from the company which ran it-- one kid committed suicide because of it!--.... throw 'em all in jail and throw away the key!

+ 1

Papa Dangerous · #18 10-15-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knumbskull

any kind of numbers-driven system in areas of medicine, policing, or teaching seems to be pretty flawed, I think... i say this having discussed it with professionals in all of these fields. I'd be glad to hear from TBers who work in them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by knumbskull

any kind of numbers-driven system in areas of medicine, policing, or teaching seems to be pretty flawed, I think... i say this having discussed it with professionals in all of these fields. I'd be glad to hear from TBers who work in them.

I do not think it is very necessary to have to discuss this idea with professionals in the field to understand how terrible of a concept it really is. Understood, it may have some benefit somewhere, somehow... but writing people medication because of a quota, or giving us jail time to make that extra bonus at the end of the month?? That is atrocious! Let's drug America and get them addicted! Let's look up innocent people so tax payers can put more money into the penal system!

I am so glad that these are groups of people that we trust our lives with.... sadness all around.

Papa Dangerous · #19 10-15-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Root 5

The USA has more people in prison for minor drug offenses than all of Western Europe has incarcerated for ALL offenses. And Western Europe has a much larger population.

And I'm not surprised at all the police lied. You're dealing with fallible human beings. Just because they have a badge doesn't mean they're more truthful and moral.

This is one reason I never judge when someone ends up in prison under questionable evidence.

I hate when cops think they are above the law. I also understand it is a psychological issue, and it has been experimented upon. There should be something done about this... its actually very serious and shrugged off.

People of authority (a badge of a lab coat) assert certain dominance. A person wearing the badge may become to corrupt with power. A person wearing a Dr.'s coat may provide too much pressure upon a person.

Here are the best examples:

The Stanford Prison Experiment: A Simulation Study of the Psychology of Imprisonment
Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are experiments by renown psychologist Philip Zimbardo. This displays what happens when a person is giving power over another person.

This is the Milgram experiment on obedience of authority figures.

Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These cases present very horrific things. That people can have such control over another person because of what they wear!

AnchorHoy · #20 10-16-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

as a libertarian, i am just appalled by this... as i was by the judge in Chicago (or wherever it was) who was locking up kids in a private prison when he knew they were innocent, just to get kickbacks from the company which ran it-- one kid committed suicide because of it!

Pennsylvania - the Alabama part in the middle (quoting James Carville)

Unfortunately, that's one of the things that IMHO is bound to happen when Judges are elected as opposed to appointed. You need serious money to run for even a relatively trivial elected office in this country. John Q. Public doesn't have that kind of bread. Big corporations do, and they expect (and usually get) their money's worth and then some