If you walk into a store

[fdeck]

My viewpoint is: What's so hard to comprehend about me wanting a merchant to value my privacy and convenience?

There's another thread going on in this forum right now about Succeeding At Work. Well, if you're a merchant, you're at work, and you work for me.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Not exactly. Google "places of public accommodation." There are some limits as to what a store can demand. I doubt that bag checking is one of those limits, but (for instance) racial discrimination is prohibited even if there is a posted policy.

Of course.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by fdeck

My viewpoint is: What's so hard to comprehend about me wanting a merchant to value my privacy and convenience?

There's another thread going on in this forum right now about Succeeding At Work. Well, if you're a merchant, you're at work, and you work for me.

No, I don't work for you. I'm not a public employee. I offer goods for you to purchase on my private property. What's so hard for you to understand about me not wanting you to bring tools commonly used for theft into my emporium? If you don't want to have your bags examined, don't patronize my store.

How do you feel about having your bags inspected when you enter a sporting event or concert? You've already purchased a ticket, but your right to enter the venue can be revoked if you refuse to submit your bags for inspection. Seems to me that would be even more onerous to those who don't understand why the inspections are appropriate and necessary.

How about when you want to board an aircraft, and you are x-rayed? That's about as personal as it gets. They can even see the stent in my heart.

[6jase5]

This is unbelievable and I'm seeing a bunch of whining "you can't make me do it" going on. I happen to like security...it tells me that a corporate decision is being made to thwart theft which keeps the cost to the consumer down. I shop with my 2 year old all the time and to have my hands free I sometimes bring a backpack. Sometimes they ask to check it, I don't care, what do I have to hide? Takes all of 2 seconds, happened two nights ago at Target. Never thought twice about it.

Why is it that I constantly see people that "just so happen" to have current or former problems obeying laws have such issues with things like rules, police, security, etc.? Pilferage/shrinkage is huge in retail and warehousing for retail and high tech (my industry). You should see the security we have in place for some products (you come in with your clothes, strip, put on a jumpsuit and do the reverse on the way out). You don't like it, fine, get another job, because what you can put in your pocket could cost us 6 figures and a 30mil a year client.

Some folks need to get over themselves and their view of rights. You DON'T have some human right to do whatever you want on someone else's property, like a store, which is private property. You have the choice to NOT go in, that's your right.

Another nifty suggestion....online shopping - no bag check.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

It's pretty rare in most parts of the US, as well. I've never been asked to check a bag. Ever.

I do love Jaquo threads.

Take something into a GC sometime.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by 6jase5

This is unbelievable and I'm seeing a bunch of whining "you can't make me do it" going on. I happen to like security...it tells me that a corporate decision is being made to thwart theft which keeps the cost to the consumer down. I shop with my 2 year old all the time and to have my hands free I sometimes bring a backpack. Sometimes they ask to check it, I don't care, what do I have to hide? Takes all of 2 seconds, happened two nights ago at Target. Never thought twice about it.

Why is it that I constantly see people that "just so happen" to have current or former problems obeying laws have such issues with things like rules, police, security, etc.? Pilferage/shrinkage is huge in retail and warehousing for retail and high tech (my industry). You should see the security we have in place for some products (you come in with your clothes, strip, put on a jumpsuit and do the reverse on the way out). You don't like it, fine, get another job, because what you can put in your pocket could cost us 6 figures and a 30mil a year client.

Some folks need to get over themselves and their view of rights. You DON'T have some human right to do whatever you want on someone else's property, like a store, which is private property. You have the choice to NOT go in, that's your right.

Another nifty suggestion....online shopping - no bag check.

Forget I posted anything. This pretty much covers it for me.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by 6jase5

This is unbelievable and I'm seeing a bunch of whining "you can't make me do it" going on. I happen to like security...it tells me that a corporate decision is being made to thwart theft which keeps the cost to the consumer down. I shop with my 2 year old all the time and to have my hands free I sometimes bring a backpack. Sometimes they ask to check it, I don't care, what do I have to hide? Takes all of 2 seconds, happened two nights ago at Target. Never thought twice about it.

Why is it that I constantly see people that "just so happen" to have current or former problems obeying laws have such issues with things like rules, police, security, etc.? Pilferage/shrinkage is huge in retail and warehousing for retail and high tech (my industry). You should see the security we have in place for some products (you come in with your clothes, strip, put on a jumpsuit and do the reverse on the way out). You don't like it, fine, get another job, because what you can put in your pocket could cost us 6 figures and a 30mil a year client.

Some folks need to get over themselves and their view of rights. You DON'T have some human right to do whatever you want on someone else's property, like a store, which is private property. You have the choice to NOT go in, that's your right.

Another nifty suggestion....online shopping - no bag check.

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Forget I posted anything. This pretty much covers it for me.

Me too

[Simo98]

Personally, I think refusing the request inside someones private property is considerably more rude than them asking to check your bag.

You're entering someones own private property, their own domain, the least you can do is be polite and act like you are a guest in their own house, which you essentially are. If somebody owns a store, they likely spend more time in their than they do in their own home, I know I do. If you're a guest in someones home and they ask you to take your shoes off, do you say "Why? I have a right to wear shoes! What do you think I'm some kind of muddy shoed criminal!" I don't, I respect their decision that they don't want people wearing shoes in their house, whatever the reason may be.

If you're not happy with the service or the way you're treated, don't come back, but you don't make the world a nicer or more polite place by being rude yourself. Write them a letter and expressing your discomfort and suggesting that they change their policy if you want.

I dunno, I just try to be polite and treat everybody nicely wherever I can, but it doesn't seem to be the norm anymore, everybody is worried about me, me, me. Manners, a smile, and a little understanding has made the world around me a lot nicer place to live in that the one a lot of others seem to exist in, so might be worth a shot.

[LarryO]

It was NOT the best backpack for metal

[Tituscrow]

Perhaps a non-US spin on this outrageous and heinous act of oppression might give some perspective.

In the vast majority of stores in the vast majority of UK cities, being asked to hand over a bag/rucksack/backpack/bookbag/handbag etc is not very common at all. Are we more trusting or less likely to thieve? Probably not. But we are a little bit more laid back about this sort of thing.

Maybe aborgman can dig up some stats on rates of shoplifting in the UK compared to the US

However, on those occasions when one IS asked to open ones personal bag on entering a shop, I don't know anyone who has ever felt violated or insulted. You just do it. No big deal. The store has their reasons. There may be a momentary "me? A thief? How dare you?"...but it comes and it goes. It is one of several anti-theft measures put in place, like security cameras, tag detectors on exit and security guards (marked and unmarked).

Again, as several posters have referenced, when I check in at an airport, there is a momentary "me? A terrorist? How dare you?"...but it's just a small price to pay to make my flight that little bit safer.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Again, why are you bringing the backpack in the store in the first place? Consistent with Jauqo's assumption, I'm going to assume there's a good chance the backpacker is going to steal something. The store could just institute a policy of "No bags or backpacks allowed in the store." That was the policy in the bookstore at my university. You had to leave your bags in lockers in the foyer. This has never been an issue for me. I don't bring backpacks into stores. Why do you need to? Just to get butthurt over someone wanting to check it?

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand? and "butthurt" is a bit condescending Munji, c'mon now.
I said "I don't like it" and gave my reason as to why, I did not say "it's pains me deeply and I'm sooo horribly upset by it waaah"...

Again - let's say my wife and I decide to go shopping in the city, NYC let's say. You don't drive there and repark every block, right? So for hours we're walking from store to store, how do you propose we carry our purchased items? It's hard to rent a mule in NYC, so we sort carry everything with us be it in a backpack or one of my wife's gorilla-sized purse/bag thingies. I really didn't think that was so unusual or weird..? Maybe it's just me that does this.. Now, when I'm asked to check my bag, it annoys me personally because it feels as though I'm being treated as a potential shoplifter. That said, to again repeat - it's not an issue that's big enough for me to raise a stink over so if I really want to go into this particular store, I just get over it and check my bag. If if feel like I'm being treated poorly, then I turn around and walk out. If the bag thing looks like it's going to be an issue then as an alternate plan of action, either my wife or I will wait outside with the bag while the other goes in. See? Lots of options, no need to get condescending.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by two fingers

I was trying not to derail this into a gun debate. But you are absolutely correct. There are other local statutes in smaller towns as well.

No worries, I just wanted to point that out to our non-US members here.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

No it's not, you always have the right to refuse the checking of your bag meaning the checking of the bag is voluntary i.e. you have to agree, there's no implied consent.

This is, of course, incorrect. Stores can set certain requirements to allow entry onto their property. You can refuse, but they don't have to allow you entry, either.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

word.

whatever ever happened to the basic agreement in our society to be free of any and all unreasonable searches or seizures without due process of law?

btw, on a side note, the big fish among shoplifters wear suits, don't carry a bag, and nobody watches them cos they don't look like one.

Why is this concept so hard to understand. This protection from unreasonable search and seizure, only applies between you and the government. A private property owner does not have the same obligations to be "reasonable."

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Perhaps a non-US spin on this outrageous and heinous act of oppression might give some perspective.

In the vast majority of stores in the vast majority of UK cities, being asked to hand over a bag/rucksack/backpack/bookbag/handbag etc is not very common at all. Are we more trusting or less likely to thieve? Probably not. But we are a little bit more laid back about this sort of thing.

Maybe aborgman can dig up some stats on rates of shoplifting in the UK compared to the US

However, on those occasions when one IS asked to open ones personal bag on entering a shop, I don't know anyone who has ever felt violated or insulted. You just do it. No big deal. The store has their reasons. There may be a momentary "me? A thief? How dare you?"...but it comes and it goes. It is one of several anti-theft measures put in place, like security cameras, tag detectors on exit and security guards (marked and unmarked).

Again, as several posters have referenced, when I check in at an airport, there is a momentary "me? A terrorist? How dare you?"...but it's just a small price to pay to make my flight that little bit safer.

Aaron is on wiki as we speak..........he'll be here shortly.

As I mentioned to Mark above, this isn't a US thing. I live in the US, and I can't remember the last time is was ever asked to check a bag, or my wife was asked to check a purse in a store. This is more of a "I live in a bad neighborhood," or, "I'm just looking to be offended" sort of thing......

[Relic]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Why is this concept so hard to understand. This protection from unreasonable search and seizure, only applies between you and the government. A private property owner does not have the same obligations to be "reasonable."

Yeah this is true. Stores and such do have a latitude to enforce their rules and policies so long as it doesn't clash with state or federal law. The real barometer for them is the way their clientele handles it. If they go too far, they lose clients

[Relic]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Aaron is on wiki as we speak..........he'll be here shortly.

As I mentioned to Mark above, this isn't a US thing. I live in the US, and I can't remember the last time is was ever asked to check a bag, or my wife was asked to check a purse in a store. This is more of a "I live in a bad neighborhood," or, "I'm just looking to be offended" sort of thing......

Possibly but that's not the whole of it.
I guess it depends on the store. Here in NJ, you will occasionally come across a store that does this. I've ran into it in Philly and NYC regularly. Sometimes in "bad" areas sometimes in areas that were perfectly fine.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Relic

Possibly but that's not the whole of it.
I guess it depends on the store. Here in NJ, you will occasionally come across a store that does this. I've ran into it in Philly and NYC regularly. Sometimes in "bad" areas sometimes in areas that were perfectly fine.

I've been to NYC about a dozen times over the last 15 years, for about a week at a time. I'm regularly carrying either a small backpack or a messenger-type bag. Not only have I never seen one of these signs (not that I'm looking for them, either), but I've never been asked to check my bag. And, if you've ever met my wife, you would know we do a LOT of shopping.......

[MarthaSamira]

Where I live they put your backpack inside of a sealed plastic bag and check if it's been violated when you leave the store.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I've been to NYC about a dozen times over the last 15 years, for about a week at a time. I'm regularly carrying either a small backpack or a messenger-type bag. Not only have I never seen one of these signs (not that I'm looking for them, either), but I've never been asked to check my bag. And, if you've ever met my wife, you would know we do a LOT of shopping.......

I don't ever recall seeing the signs either to be honest, but I can tell you 100% that this has happened to me several times there. Maybe I look shady... Unfortunately I have absolutely no recollection of which stores it was, but if you really want names/places to validate that I'm not bsing or something: I Goldberg's in Philly does this, Princeton Record Exchange in Princeton, NJ does this (or used to, I haven't been there in about a year and half) and there are several more places that I've experienced this before.