Individualized majors?

[Bett]

Well, everyone knows talkbass is the best place for advice in general, so here's my situation.

I've been going to a local state university since last year, and am currently in my second year of school. I'm majoring in biology, and going for a BS degree. College was all fine and dandy last year, the classes were decent and not too boring. However, I have recently come to realize the school's generic biology program does not seem to have what I want. The only biology related major available is.. well.. biology, and though some of the higher level courses seem interesting, the one's I'm stuck with currently are not. The requirements for a biology degree include more math than I'd like, and a lot of the things we're doing in class aren't relative to my interests.
I recently started thinking about transferring to the University of Connecticut for their horticulture program. I have a great interest in plants and the program looks like something I'd like. There's not a big emphasis on mathematics, nor chemistry, and a lot of the courses appear to be more hands on with the subject of each course. However, the school costs about $3000 more a year for tuition (not that I'm paying for it) and there's some other costs that my current school doesn't have, such as having to pay for parking. The school isn't any farther away than my current place, and it's a more recognized school than my current one, so there are some benefits of going there instead. I'd still need to adjust to the new school though, and it's over 15,000 students larger than the school I'm in now.
Just tonight I realized that my current school offers individualized majors, and started wondering if I could stay at my current school and still take the classes I want. I haven't heard much about them, however, so I'm wondering if anyone else here has experience with them. I don't know if I'd be able to get out of more math classes with it, and I'm not sure my school offers enough classes to put a main focus on plant biology and something related, so I might not end up getting what I want. Of course I'll need to talk to my faculty advisor about this, but I'd like the opinions of some other people as well. Maybe I should just transfer to the other school and take an individualized major too? Then I'd get a better class choice with even more chance to customize it, though right now that almost seems like too much of a bother.

[elgecko]

College is like playing bass. If you want to succeed you, you have to start with the basics. You can't fast forward to the good parts. There is no tab for college.

Your boring classes are the building blocks for those interesting-sounding upper level classes. You need to take math and chemistry because you'll eventually find that math and all sciences start to overlap.

College is expensive. You have to ask yourself what that piece of paper will mean to your prospective employers. Will your narrow field of study and deemphasis in math and hard science limit your job marketability?

[IconBasser]

my dad did an individualized major, some mix of electrical engineering and something else. As it turned out, he initially had a tough time finding a job because of it: companies would be looking for specific degree titles, and ignored him because his wasn't an exact match. He advised me against such programs.

[Bett]

The thing is though, I don't want to be working in the big biology fields that all my classes seem to be geared toward. I'm not interested in pharmaceuticals, or researching protein content of homogenized liver (last week's lab). I'd rather work towards a degree concerning organisms themselves, with classes that are more engaging and informational. UConn's horticulture major is a 4 year, bachelor's of science program, and looking at the types of classes in it, it seems like it would be much more enjoyable. If I'm going to be stuck in classes that I dislike, just to end up with a degree that will give me a good chance for a job I don't want to do... then what's the point of it all.
Also, I do plan on getting a master's degree eventually, so it's not like I'm just wanting to take easy classes just to have some crappy degree. I do actually plan on doing something beneficial with my education.
And yeah, I probably won't end up taking an individualized major. It seemed like a consideration the other hour, but I might as well just do some major and pick a minor if I really want to later on.
I'm thinking about visiting the UConn campus tomorrow. I'll check out the visitor's center and some of the campus if I can.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

It's about the bit of paper at the end as opposed to (directly) what you actually learn.

Also, if your classmates are also doing a BS in Biology, they aren't likely at all to get into the pharmaceutical industry and they are even less likely to get into any sort of real research (not with just a BS anyway).

Where do you want to end up working? I can assure you that nearly every (if not every) job where you'd be using a Biology degree will require math and possibly some simple chemistry. You need to be dynamic, you need to be able to show people you can do more than just one thing, especially in todays job market.

I'd strongly recommend talking to some careers staff (more than one, try and get as broad a feel as you can).

(this is from someone with a BSc (hons) in Biochemistry, an MSc in Nanotechnology and Microsystems and working towards a PhD in Physics (Biophotonics), while I am in the UK, I'd say that I can't see things being too different in the US (I have friends who now work in Boston U.,City U. in NYC and a research company in Cali), and studying anything in the life sciences, you really need to be dynamic)

[hrodbert696]

Not being a scientist, I can't advise you much on what track to go on science-wise. However, I would agree that design-your-own-major can dig you into a hole when it comes to the job market - people don't want to listen through an explanation of why an odd assortment of courses made sense to you. It works best if you're modeling a program on an existing, recognizable major that your school doesn't offer. For instance, when I was an academic adviser I had an advisee who wanted to study linguistics but our school didn't offer a major in it. So he built himself a linguistics major. Your horticulture idea may fit that bill. Just make sure that your resume can say "I majored in X" and everyone would understand what X is.

[Bett]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Where do you want to end up working? I can assure you that nearly every (if not every) job where you'd be using a Biology degree will require math and possibly some simple chemistry. You need to be dynamic, you need to be able to show people you can do more than just one thing, especially in todays job market.

Well see, that's why I'm thinking about not getting a biology degree (and though I dislike math, it's not like I'm incompetent in it, I just need my calculator). One thing that I really do enjoy is working with plants. They're not as demanding as animals, and well,without plants we'd all be dead. My uncle in Finland works in the endangered plant field. He goes out every day and plots the forests he gets sent to, looking for any protected species and similar things so the area can get the protection it deserves. Though I wouldn't want to do the exact work he does (you don't want to mess with Finland's moose flies and mosquitoes...), there's plenty of other things to do in the related fields.

[elgecko]

Originally Posted by Bett

The thing is though, I don't want to be working in the big biology fields that all my classes seem to be geared toward. I'm not interested in pharmaceuticals, or researching protein content of homogenized liver (last week's lab). I'd rather work towards a degree concerning organisms themselves, with classes that are more engaging and informational.

I think that's is the problem...exactly what does a "degree concerning organisms" mean? That's pretty vague! Exactly what do you want to do when you graduate (i.e. who will you work for)? Once you figure that out, then you can work backwards and figure out what your major should be.

[jp58]

Check it out. I'm doing micro biology and I'm a few semesters away from a degree. You can say all you want that the boring precal, stats, research methods, and chemistry classes aren't helping you with what you wan to do, but you'd be wrong. They teach you the building blocks as to how all organisms work, the proper way to do research, and how to use all the newfangled lab tools properly. Like Mohawk said, after a while, all science begins to overlap.

What classes do you have now? I would suggest finishing your basic degree requirements and then take a botany or plant physiology class, and then moving into the "interesting" upper level classes.

[Bett]

I do not have a plan on what to do when I graduate, and I don't plan to make one now. When I have to find something to do after school, I deal with it then. Right now I want an education in something I care about so I can actually work towards my goal of having an enjoyable career.
Sure, those boring classes may be teaching me all the things you listed, but they're not going to be useful in every field. Not every single biology related thing is going to require lab research and calculus at every level. What if I just want to work at the local nursery? The people there growing and selling the plants aren't sitting in the lab and genetically engineering a better plant.
Last year I had organismal biology and an ecology class. Those I both enjoyed. We got to work in the greenhouse a few times and we were studying live things. Now I have cell structure and function. It's basically the same thing we've been learning since 7th grade, with a bit more history and bigger lab reports added in. I also have organic chemistry, and calculus 1 right now.

[elgecko]

Originally Posted by Bett

What if I just want to work at the local nursery? The people there growing and selling the plants aren't sitting in the lab and genetically engineering a better plant.

Then you probably shouldn't waste the money on a college education.

[jp58]

No, you won't be using calculus, but you will use precal (quadratic equation) if you are doing anything chemistry related. You will need to know pH and buffers from chemistry as well.

I can't say for sure with horticulture, but with what I do day in and out, chemistry and structure based biology are important.

Call the department at Uconn. They will be able to shed light on this stuff for you a lot better than some strangers on the internet.

[Tsal]

As a biochemistry / plant physiology major, I'd say that you should go what makes sense to you. You should be able to work out which program contains more courses that are beneficial for your career plans. Most of university jobs as a researcher are very specialized jobs, so if you feel you're interested in a lab job working with physiology, for example, you don't get much benefit from studying generic courses like ecology. You also can think about connections; a program specializing in agricultural plants is going to have more connections to agricultural companies than a generic biology one.

[Bett]

Well if you think about it for a bit.. horticulture is a specific field of biology, and if the curriculum at UConn doesn't focus on math and chemistry as much, then there must be a reason for it. I've already taken basic chemistry and precalc, and as long as I get over a C- this year in my math (got exactly a C- last year so that credit won't transfer) and chemistry, then I should have most of the math/chemistry and basic biology courses filled for UConn. In my current school's bio program, I'd still need either calculus 2 and/or physics and some other math course.
My aunt, the owner of a large company in Michigan, said that even getting a degree in basket weaving is better than no degree at all. My mention of nurseries was just an example anyway. I sure wouldn't mind working there though while I'm still in school, and hey, you have to start somewhere. I don't plan on working at my school as the aquarium maintenance person all my life, but I enjoy it and it's better than nothing right now (not that I'm even doing it for money).
I know internet strangers aren't the best people to ask for this stuff, but it gives me a chance to put it down into writing and discuss my thoughts with someone. So in this case, internet strangers serve their purpose.

And thanks Tsal. Most of my school's biology program seems geared towards people interested in lab work and research. There are a few outdoor type courses, such as marine biology. The main reason I'm in this program is because it's the only biology major this school offers. It's mostly a liberal arts university, so of the science majors, there's really only biology, biochemistry, and chemistry. I came to this school because it was nearby, and I didn't get accepted to UConn the first time I applied. I think it might be beneficial to transfer if I can, since I'll have more opportunities at a school with more of a focus on science, especially since they have a college of agriculture and natural resources.

[elgecko]

Originally Posted by Bett

I do not have a plan on what to do when I graduate, and I don't plan to make one now. When I have to find something to do after school, I deal with it then.

By then, you may have already painted yourself into a corner.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by elgecko

By then, you may have already painted yourself into a corner.

Yup, which is why IMO you should try and keep your studies as broad as possible, including chemistry & maths based stuff.

If you want to specify, use a Masters or PhD.

In todays job market (especially with sciences), you are incredibly lucky if you can get one job and keep to that. Most jobs will be contracts for a certain term, which is generally only up to a few years (in academic research, usually much less!). Need to keep your horizons wide and not specify too much with your undergraduate degree. Regardless of what you end up doing and where you do it, if you are using your qualifications, your undergrad degree is the backbone.