An interesting look into why Hollywood doesn't do "thoughtful."

[Deluge Of Sound]

Found this a few minutes ago, figured at least a couple of you would be interested.

I write this to you today from my cubicle at Warner Bros. International Television. You may say that I am writing to you from the belly of the Hollywood Beast.

We don't do ‘thoughtful.'

I originally wrote this as a joke, but realistically. . . we don't. Bloody Sunday remains one of my favorite films of 2002, but it's something I'm always guarded to watch because of how much it makes my blood boil.

(I must add, that my boss is Irish. I remember telling her about the film, and that it was called Bloody Sunday, and she asked me "which one?" The 1972 Bloody Sunday, or the 1913 one where the British Army opened fire at a packed soccer stadium in Dublin? -- which even for a young woman like her is still pretty fresh in her memory.

In truth is, the films you are watching, the so-called "thoughtful terrorism films" . . . don't make any money. Now, part of the reason is, of course, recent circumstance. Your local cineplex, or by extension, the neighborhood Blockbuster, is supposed to be a means of escape, or at most. reflection. Since the interesting times we are living in haven't yet ended, how can we realistically ask an audience to "escape" by putting money down for Lions for Lambs, or Body of Lies when frankly, all it is going to do is remind them of what they're getting for free on CNN.

I'm actually, by trade a screenwriter, and even though I had not yet generated a sale, I was known in town for doing "military action." That all but ended on September 11th. All of the sudden, the word came down: no action films, no violence. The studios wanted confection, escapism -- a usual signal for musicals and fantasies. That lasted a year or two. Then action and violence became okay, so long as it was over-the-top and cartoonish, and centered in on getting revenge (sound familiar?). Slowly, after the Iraq War was waged, then relegated to our back pages, Hollywood attempted to do Iraq films, like Lions, like Stop Loss, like In the Valley of Elah, and like The Hurt Locker. So far, of the bunch of them, The Hurt Locker has been the most successful, raking in $12 million. It cost $11 million.

Body of Lies at least attempted to explain the complicated dynamics at work in the terrorism fight. In fact, the dynamics were so complicated that not even Leonardo DiCaprio could save it at the box office. Instead of a white knuckle thrill ride (which the audiences were promised in the trailers), they got a sedate, gorgeous examination of ethics and brutality. It wasn't a fun time at the movies. It wasn't even necessarily that realistic (though I'll defer to your expertise on that one). I could see why it bored audiences to tears.

So, the long and the short of it: We don't do thoughtful because it makes our heads hurt. When we do thoughtful, it winds up making the audience's head hurt, and no one makes any money that way.

source:
http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts...from_hollywood

[flipper_gv]

I love movies that make my head hurt. I love artistic challenges. I know I'm one of the rare here, but hell, I love when people are doing stuff that actually looked like work/imagination/originality/etc... went in it. My favorite movie is still 2001: A Space Odyssey and hell, there aren't much people knowing all the subtleties of that movie.

[Selta]

I didn't need an article to tell me this

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by flipper_gv

I love movies that make my head hurt. I love artistic challenges. I know I'm one of the rare here, but hell, I love when people are doing stuff that actually looked like work/imagination/originality/etc... went in it. My favorite movie is still 2001: A Space Odyssey and hell, there aren't much people knowing all the subtleties of that movie.

Im with you on this. I like movies that will make me think or speculate. I love a complex film with an open ending...

[MJ5150]

I generally go to the movies to be mindlessly entertained. I don't want to make my brain work overtime like it does all day at my job.

-Mike

[Selta]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

I generally go to the movies to be mindlessly entertained. I don't want to make my brain work overtime like it does all day at my job.

-Mike

Yeah, uh huh, riiiight.

Did you check DCPROMO?

[hover]

I call b.s. I gotcher thoughtful right here

http://vimeo.com/8616405

[MJ5150]

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

Yeah, uh huh, riiiight.

Did you check DCPROMO?

I did. It was missing the TURNOFFBRAIN switch.

-Mike

[Selta]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

I did. It was missing the TURNOFFBRAIN switch.

-Mike

Well there's your problem. &TURNOFFBRAIN

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by flipper_gv

I love movies that make my head hurt. I love artistic challenges. I know I'm one of the rare here, but hell, I love when people are doing stuff that actually looked like work/imagination/originality/etc... went in it. My favorite movie is still 2001: A Space Odyssey and hell, there aren't much people knowing all the subtleties of that movie.

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

Im with you on this. I like movies that will make me think or speculate. I love a complex film with an open ending...

I'll third that motion, if you can add anything to this list please do...

The Man From Earth
Primer (had to watch it 5 times, just to figure out that I wasn't meant to understand the whole thing)
Dark Matter
Pi
Requiem for a Dream
A Clock Work Orange
Fight Club
Vanilla Sky
Waking Life
Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas
A Scanner Darkly
Donny Darko
The Andromeda Strain
Train Spotting
Breaking Bad (TV series)
Dexter (TV series)

Ps. Lately I've sorta lost hope in the film industry fulfilling my needs for mind warping **** so I've turned to books.

[Jimmy Bones]

I like movies which make me think, but generally only if they're fictitious, like say... Vantage Point or Fight Club or something. A good brainscrew.

Looking forward to Shutter Island next month.

[WalterBush]

I like oddball movies that aren't just mindless entertainment.

It's also interesting to note, not a lot of them come out of Hollywood, at least not anymore.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

I'll third that motion, if you can add anything to this list please do...

The Man From Earth
Primer (had to watch it 5 times, just to figure out that I wasn't meant to understand the whole thing)
Dark Matter
Pi
Requiem for a Dream
A Clock Work Orange
Fight Club
Vanilla Sky
Waking Life
Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas
A Scanner Darkly
Donny Darko
The Andromeda Strain
Train Spotting
Breaking Bad (TV series)
Dexter (TV series)

Ps. Lately I've sorta lost hope in the film industry fulfilling my needs for mind warping **** so I've turned to books.

No offense, but I wouldn't put those on a list of "complex films with open endings," not even the ones on that list that I like. Most of 'em are just standard flicks marketed as "edgy," or (IMO) substandard films with cult followings. But hey, if you dig 'em, more power to you.

Anyway, to add a few of my favorites to the list:

Easy Rider, Raging Bull, The Conversation, Apocalypse Now, Boyz 'N The Hood, Children Of Men, The 400 Blows, Fritz Lang's "M", Seven Samurai, Aguirre, Fitzcarraldo, Dr. Strangelove, Taxi Driver, City Of God, Nosferatu (Herzog's remake), Boogie Nights, Rescue Dawn, Paradise Now, Serpico, Being There, Cool Hand Luke, The Squid And The Whale, Duck Soup, The Shawshank Redemption, The Fall, TransSiberian, Platoon, Unforgiven, Let The Right One In, Memento...

I'm also glad that Shutter Island is finally going to see release.

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

No offense, but I wouldn't put those on a list of "complex films with open endings," not even the ones on that list that I like. Most of 'em are just standard flicks marketed as "edgy," or (IMO) substandard films with cult followings. But hey, if you dig 'em, more power to you.

Anyway, to add a few of my favorites to the list:

Easy Rider, Raging Bull, The Conversation, Apocalypse Now, Boyz 'N The Hood, Children Of Men, The 400 Blows, Fritz Lang's "M", Seven Samurai, Aguirre, Fitzcarraldo, Dr. Strangelove, Taxi Driver, City Of God, Nosferatu (Herzog's remake), Boogie Nights, Rescue Dawn, Paradise Now, Serpico, Being There, Cool Hand Luke, The Squid And The Whale, Duck Soup, The Shawshank Redemption, The Fall, TransSiberian, Platoon, Unforgiven, Let The Right One In, Memento...

I'm also glad that Shutter Island is finally going to see release.

I agree, my list was a lot shorter and then I went through my Netflix que and filtered for "mind bending" and listed any movie that I had enjoyed. More like a list of movies that aren't brainless.

Dr. Strangelove was great (anything Krubrick besides Eyes wide Shut which I didn't really follow is usually good)

Also American Beauty and The Ice Storm need to be added.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

I'll third that motion, if you can add anything to this list please do...

The Man From Earth
Primer (had to watch it 5 times, just to figure out that I wasn't meant to understand the whole thing)
Dark Matter
Pi
Requiem for a Dream
A Clock Work Orange
Fight Club
Vanilla Sky
Waking Life
Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas
A Scanner Darkly
Donny Darko
The Andromeda Strain
Train Spotting
Breaking Bad (TV series)
Dexter (TV series)

Ps. Lately I've sorta lost hope in the film industry fulfilling my needs for mind warping **** so I've turned to books.

Seems like we share a taste in movies for sure, anything by David Lynch would be a good add to that list.

Some of my favorite directors are already up there, Terry Gilliam (Fear & Loathing), Richard Linklater (Scanner Darkly & Waking Life), Kubrick of course, Darren Aronofsky (Pi, Requiem, the Wrestler).

I generally don't recommend movies to people, as taste is all subjective, but I bet you would enjoy most of my movie collection. I'll take a look tonite and see if anything stands out, but like I said above, if you havent seen anything by David Lynch go rent it all!

ps. Oh, and I too have been reading a lot more lately... currently reading The Stand, before that was American Psycho (while I loved the film the book is SO much better), and before that Catch-22.

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

No offense, but I wouldn't put those on a list of "complex films with open endings," not even the ones on that list that I like. Most of 'em are just standard flicks marketed as "edgy," or (IMO) substandard films with cult followings. But hey, if you dig 'em, more power to you.

I'll note that I also enjoy a lot more than just "complex films with open endings". I like a lot of cult films, when the content appeals to me. Strange flicks are great, and I also love a good drama. The occasional Hollywood flick can be decent, and indie film is really on the rise. My suggestion, as a filmmaker, is to look at these movies you like, who writes them, and who directs them, and look into other work they've done. Ive been quite satisfied.

The Prestige is a really good movie from recent years, and I loved There Will Be Blood.

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

Seems like we share a taste in movies for sure, anything by David Lynch would be a good add to that list.

Some of my favorite directors are already up there, Terry Gilliam (Fear & Loathing), Richard Linklater (Scanner Darkly & Waking Life), Kubrick of course, Darren Aronofsky (Pi, Requiem, the Wrestler).

I generally don't recommend movies to people, as taste is all subjective, but I bet you would enjoy most of my movie collection. I'll take a look tonite and see if anything stands out, but like I said above, if you havent seen anything by David Lynch go rent it all!

ps. Oh, and I too have been reading a lot more lately... currently reading The Stand, before that was American Psycho (while I loved the film the book is SO much better), and before that Catch-22.

I watched Eraser Head...The camera work was insane and brilliant and the guy can make you feel really creeped out and uncomfortable but the movie just sorta bored me after awhile, even with herbal support.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

The consensus seems to be that Hollywood and/or the film industry sometimes does "thoughtful" but usually doesn't. In that sense they're just like almost every other business or human endeavor.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

The consensus seems to be that Hollywood and/or the film industry sometimes does "thoughtful" but usually doesn't. In that sense they're just like almost every other business or human endeavor.

Thats it right there. Its business, and unfortunately that always equates to what will sell to the masses. Its the same reason we have so many crappy pop rock bands all the time. Theyre easy to sell. A Hollywood blockbuster is much more likely to bring in a huge box office than a well made think-piece.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

I watched Eraser Head...The camera work was insane and brilliant and the guy can make you feel really creeped out and uncomfortable but the movie just sorta bored me after awhile, even with herbal support.

I havent yet seen Eraserhead, but my gf has it and I'll be watching it.

Other Lynch movies I have seen and loved: Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me, Lost Highway, & Mulholland Drive.

[Pilgrim]

I like explosions and car chases as much as anyone, and I'll probably go to most of those films (although fortunately I passed on the second Transformers).

But I also like films that turn into gems like "Secondhand Lions" and "October Sky", which were both wonderful.

What Hollywood does not do any more is develop the characters in the films. That's also what made the two I just mentioned and the older "classic" films both more interesting, and slower-moving. Hollywood doesn't do slower-moving any more. Casablanca? Could NOT happen. Too slow. Too much dialogue.

Watch a John Ford western and you'll see that every single character in the film has a personality, and most of them do JUST enough to tell you what it is. Great stuff.

OTOH, I'm happy to see T3 or a B movie like Demolition Man - just not always.