Was the Marquis de Sade right?

gonzorob · #1 10-31-2008, 09:50 AM

"In an age that is utterly corrupt, the best policy is to do as others do."
- Marquis de Sade, 1788

I promise this is the last nonsense thread I am posting today. Carry on.

MakiSupaStar · #2 10-31-2008, 09:53 AM

Not sure, but he's definitely inspired some creative sex.

gonzorob · #3 10-31-2008, 09:56 AM

Jeremy Crockett · #4 10-31-2008, 10:20 AM

No, he was wrong. Do we wish to see our children utterly corrupt? If "no" they why would we model that behavior for them. Fatalism fails again.

gonzorob · #5 10-31-2008, 10:26 AM

Aye, but aren't our children corrupted by default when they are raised in a corrupt society? No matter the values you have tried to instill they still have to learn to play the game when they are all grown up.

If you think about it there is a certain amount of corruption taught to children day in and day out. They see it at school and on the news. They are smart enough the difference between the painful truth and the harmless lie. No one is innocent.

Georynn · #6 10-31-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

Not sure, but he's definitely inspired some creative sex.

Uhm, Yeah...

gonzorob · #7 10-31-2008, 10:27 AM

sorry. I double posted.

Eilif · #8 10-31-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzorob

"In an age that is utterly corrupt, the best policy is to do as others do."
- Marquis de Sade, 1788
I promise this is the last nonsense thread I am posting today. Carry on.

Neat quote, but complete rubbish. Everyone comprimises somewhere, no one is perfect, and I do see the world as a fallen place, but most greatness comes from people who chose at some point or in some area to deviate from what everyone else is doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzorob

Aye, but aren't our children corrupted by default when they are raised in a corrupt society? No matter the values you have tried to instill they still have to learn to play the game when they are all grown up.
...No one is innocent.

Agreed, that no one is perfect or innocent, and society affects everybody but good childrearing can help give our children the tools they need to live without becoming "uttelry corrupt" . I largely credit my parents with giving me the tools to do this. Thank heaven, they tried to model goodness for me rather than telling me just to go out and do what everyone else is doing.

gonzorob · #9 10-31-2008, 10:47 AM

I have found that a good childrearing has resulted in me feeling like a complete outsider most of the time. My Dad was all about critical thinking. Asking why and how. And not being afraid to do the right thing, even when the deck is stacked. But I have found that society in general works completely against any notion of using these tools in a real world setting. Why is it so hard to do something right?

This thread is all gibberish anyway. Im just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

Eilif · #10 10-31-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzorob

I have found that a good childrearing has resulted in me feeling like a complete outsider most of the time. My Dad was all about critical thinking. Asking why and how. And not being afraid to do the right thing, even when the deck is stacked. But I have found that society in general works completely against any notion of using these tools in a real world setting. Why is it so hard to do something right?

I hope I didn't come accross to harsh. I know exactly where you are coming from, and have felt the same way many times. Doing the right thing is hard, the deck is stacked, and I'm sure your dad knew it too.

I'm pretty young (26) still, but most of the folks I respect have suggested to me that life doesn't get much easier, but it's a satisfying way to live.

Sorry if this comes across as a trite downer of a pep-talk.

gonzorob · #11 10-31-2008, 11:04 AM

Nah, I got you from the begining. I try to teach my daughter the right things, and prepare her for the world as we know it. Now that she is 6, it seems like some of the things I was taught growing up really clash with the way things are taught today. Especially in school.

Being a parent is friggin scary sometimes. I don't want to raise someone to become an outsider but I sure as heck don't want to raise sheep either.

Pilgrim · #12 10-31-2008, 11:15 AM

I don't accept that all children are corrupt. None of us manage to always live up to the standards we'd like, but part of being an ethical person is striving to act responsibly and well.

To me, many of the faults in society are not due to corruption, but (1) due to people focusing on their own wants and needs and ignoring those of others, and (2) acting and voting based on emotion rather than logic. Perhaps the first could be viewed as corruption, but the latter is not.

Gard · #13 10-31-2008, 11:23 AM

I refuse to give up, no matter how "stacked the deck" may be.

I am not technically a "father", but I am a stepdad to 4 great kids, and do everything I can to help them be the best they can be.

Giving up is saying "they" are right (and "they" are not one "side" or the other, the path of right is it's own path, IMO), and believe me, they aren't.

No matter how hopeless it may seem, someone must always strive to be a good person.

Of course, Spock also had a good point:

"In an insane society, the sane must appear insane."

AlphaMale · #14 10-31-2008, 11:26 AM

Classic case of the two wrongs make a right fallacy

Eilif · #15 10-31-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzorob

Nah, I got you from the begining. I try to teach my daughter the right things, and prepare her for the world as we know it. Now that she is 6, it seems like some of the things I was taught growing up really clash with the way things are taught today. Especially in school.

Being a parent is friggin scary sometimes. I don't want to raise someone to become an outsider but I sure as heck don't want to raise sheep either.

There's definately a clash, but at least you're taking an active role in your child's upbringing and charachter development, alot of folks just leave it to school, daycare, tv, nannies, etc.

Keep on raising that young tigress, or killer bunny rabbit, or whatever "power animal" she relates to best.

If you're active in her life and there for her, you will be a much bigger influence than what she comes into contact with "out there".

bad_andy · #16 10-31-2008, 12:59 PM

No. I prefer Warren Buffet: Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.

Phalex · #17 10-31-2008, 01:38 PM

I dunno, but I do really like that "sweetest taboo" song.

Atoz · #18 10-31-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzorob

"In an age that is utterly corrupt, the best policy is to do as others do."
- Marquis de Sade, 1788

I promise this is the last nonsense thread I am posting today. Carry on.

It's certainly the intellectually lazy way to proceed.

Georynn · #19 10-31-2008, 02:22 PM

My take is that the world tries to beat you into conformity all your life. If the trends of the times are to conform to corruption, then our society hasn't long to live...
The Marquis de Sade saw the results of his philosophy blow up in his face if memory serves, and a few months later the french revolution...

maybe there's something to that...

I choose non-conformity based on what is right and wrong, not by what others tell me to do. So I don't conform, but not on purpose.
I blame it on the hormones in meat...

doctorjazz · #20 10-31-2008, 11:02 PM

Has anyone ever become really exceptional by holding to that idea?