Maternity Leave and Morality

[CrispyDelicious]

I just found out something that has everyone in my company raging: One of our staff members, who has been here for several years, got pregnant. As such, today is her last day of work before she takes her year of maternity leave (not this is not what is causing the rage). Saying goodbye, she tells me that her replacement just revealed that she is also pregnant. This new girl has been here just long enough that she is now legally entitled to maternity leave. The way the numbers work, she was about a month pregnant when she got the job here. She did not specify that she was pregnant prior to getting hired, and in fact did not reveal it until a week ago. Now, we have a third replacement in training, because we will have two women on maternity leave for the same position!

My boss, (one of the owners and also the company pres), is FUMING, and is convinced that the new girl knew about her pregnancy and picked up a job in order to cash in on maternity leave. She has been informed not to return after that year is up, as she is not welcome back. She has been here only a couple of months and is now going to cost the company a year's worth of maternity leave.

My question... What do you think about this? Should a woman be legally obligated to inform the company that she is pregnant when applying for a job?

Is it not morally reprehensible to take advantage of a comany in this way? What justification, if any, is there?

In general, what do you think?

[i_got_a_mohawk]

While someones situation like that is nothing to do with the company, it isn't right that that she should be getting paid for a job she applied to when she knew she wouldnt be able to actually do the job.

The company should probably look at changing policy so things like this dont happen in the future. (ie minimum of a year working before they can take such benifits on or whatnot)

[Relic]

woah that's kind of screwed up.
Great topic though, I'll have to think on this one a bit.

As a side note, many years ago my ex-wife was fired from a job when she told them she was pregnant. She had been working there for about a year, had all great reviews, and two days after she announced it, they canned her. Fired her on some totally fabricated stuff. We actually took it to a lawyer who basically told us that there wasn't much we could really do. Fortunately she was covered under my insurance at the time.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

While someones situation like that is nothing to do with the company, it isn't right that that she should be getting paid for a job she applied to when she knew she wouldnt be able to actually do the job.

The company should probably look at changing policy so things like this dont happen in the future. (ie minimum of a year working before they can take such benifits on or whatnot)

It's no one's business if she's pregnant or not. I doubt you can legally ask that. She may or may not have known when she got the job. If she did and took it anyway, well, maybe not the most moral thing to do, but she's probably not the first to "abuse" a policy.

To work somewhere for a month and have such great maternity leave is amazing. I would think you'd have to put in a little more time with a company before such a benefit was available.

I am guessing that the company is rethinking it's benefit package...

[MonetBass]

Maternity leave for a year? That's crazy. Here I thought I was lucky in that I was entitled to three weeks FML (Family Medical Leave) when our son was born. Wow.

[CrispyDelicious]

I should also mention... It's not just the owners who are fuming. The entire company is (or was) coming off of a wage freeze due to the bad economy. Talk has been circulating about everybody getting a small increase. You can bet every single employee is giving here the death-lazer stare now. (we are a relatively small company ~50 employees)

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Relic

As a side note, many years ago my ex-wife was fired from a job when she told them she was pregnant. She had been working there for about a year, had all great reviews, and two days after she announced it, they canned her. Fired her on some totally fabricated stuff.

Pregnancy is still a hurdle for professional/working women. On a related subject, breast feeding is still looked upon strangely in the US. Don't get my wife started on that subject.

[Munjibunga]

Maternity leave is not paid leave.

[CrispyDelicious]

Originally Posted by MonetBass

Maternity leave for a year? That's crazy. Here I thought I was lucky in that I was entitled to three weeks FML (Family Medical Leave) when our son was born. Wow.

Ehh not quite a year, 35 weeks for parental benefits in Canada.

[becker4567]

If I were your boss, I would contact a labor lawyer for advice. And yes, I definitely think a woman should be legally obligated to inform a potential employer of her pregnancy. I know there are people who would scream "discrimination", but "lying by omission" is reprehensible.

[DudeistMonk]

Okay regardless of my normally bleeding heart liberal attitude, this is one issue I stray on.

For all of known history women have served the role of child bearer and raiser. Men have served as hunters and warriors, its how we evolved. Each role is vital to the species and one is not lower than the other...Let me just get that out of the way.

If women want to work they should but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Work or raise the kids but don't do both on my dime.

The oppression women suffered for years, being kept up in houses, working low paying textile jobs and all that was wrong, is wrong. Women deserve a fair wage and the right to do any job they are qualified for.

However there is a limit to how far I believe we should go to facilitate reproduction for working women.

Fact of the matter is now we have birth control, pregnancy is a choice, and for many women working is choice(also note this choice does not exist for men because of our social customs).

Reproductive choice brings great freedom for women but also means pregnancies should be planned and this kinda stuff shouldn't go on.

I also blame society for this one, there was never a need for women to work outside of running the home (a vital job) now that need grows decade after decade and it makes this issue messy.

...and I'm attracted to feminists

[CrispyDelicious]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Maternity leave is not paid leave.

Right. 15 weeks for maternity benefits. 35 weeks for parental benefits.

[()smoke()]

lots of unknowns and lots of variables here

first of all, at 4 weeks, it's not unlikely that she didn't know she was pregnant, so that leaves the idea she 'cashed in' pure conjecture

next, 'maternity leave' means different thing to different people, for instance, many employees aren't paid while on maternity leave, it's unpaid leave, like a leave of absence, with a one's job available afterward...health insurance is handled differently depending on the employer, etc...

are you saying your company gives a year of paid time away for maternity leave? typical in the states is 12 weeks unpaid leave

[CrispyDelicious]

She is legally entitled in the province of ontario to be paid for the times that I have stated above.

EDIT:

Regardless of the legths of time/amount of money she is geting out of this, I am concerned with the question of morality. Should she be entitled to anything? What standards should there be to prevent this? I am all for paying productive employees of the company, but she will be getting more money out of this than what she made prior to the giving birth. That seems wrong to me.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Maternity leave is not paid leave.

it is here.....and if hubby wants to stay home while the wife works.....he can get paid

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by SteveC

It's no one's business if she's pregnant or not. I doubt you can legally ask that. She may or may not have known when she got the job. If she did and took it anyway, well, maybe not the most moral thing to do, but she's probably not the first to "abuse" a policy.

To work somewhere for a month and have such great maternity leave is amazing. I would think you'd have to put in a little more time with a company before such a benefit was available.

I am guessing that the company is rethinking it's benefit package...

Are you kidding? Of course it's their business if she is pregnant or not. If it affects the company and what they are legally obligated to do if she is pregnant, then knowing whether or not the woman they've hired to temp for somebody who is on maternity leave is every bit their business. They've just been defrauded out of a year's worth of an employee's salary. If she didn't know, that's one thing, but if she did, it's fraud.

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by CrispyDelicious

She is legally entitled in the province of ontario to be paid for the times that I have stated above.

paid meaning her benefits are fully paid for the duration of the 50 weeks (15+30)?

not being familiar with your company or laws, it's hard to understand exactly what it is she's entitle to receive vs how much she is responsible to contribute

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

paid meaning her benefits are fully paid for the duration of the 50 weeks (15+30)?

not being familiar with your company or laws, it's hard to understand exactly what it is she's entitle to receive vs how much she is responsible to contribute

i think it's administered by unemployment insurance......both employees and employers make contributions from their pay

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

i think it's administered by unemployment insurance......both employees and employers make contributions from their pay

thanks, i wasn't aware how this works up there!

...and sorry for my typo, meant to say 15+35=50

[CrispyDelicious]

What it essentially boils down to is approximately one year off at 60% of your pay rate.