Meanwhile, in Toronto...

[MIJ-VI]

G20 protest violence prompts over 400 arrests

"More than 400 people were arrested as violence broke out after thousands of anti-G20 protesters marched through downtown Toronto on Saturday, prompting police to use tear gas in the city for the first time.

“I am profoundly disappointed in the criminal acts which have taken place,” Toronto police Chief Bill Blair said at a news conference.

"We have seen windows broken and police cars burned. It is very regrettable that such vandalism and violence could not be prevented. I want to assure you that the persons responsible will be held accountable.”...



Two words: boot camp.

[FL Knifemaker]

There's some good footage of the mounted crowd control unit doing it's thing. The "up armored" horses stomped a few of the very dumbest protestors They just needed a few hundred of them instead of a few dozen

[CrispyDelicious]

Herp Derp! Burning things makes people understand!

[MJ5150]

Brings back memories of the WTO riots up here in 1999. I had a couple friends who lost their business and livelihood thanks to these kind of idiots.

Whatever point they are trying to make has totally been lost on me.

-Mike

[Din Of Win]

Originally Posted by CrispyDelicious

Herp Derp! Burning things makes people understand!

...yep. Makes them(and everyone) understand we aren't going to sit down and have our lives dictated by the few that have 'power'.

Makes a lotta sense that yall are getting riled up over a few broken windows+burning cop cars in retaliation/expressed anger against the same people attending the G20 that has caused millions (almost billions) of gallons of oil are spilling in the gulf (not to mention the ubiquetous poverty/hunger/strife of people worldwide as a DIRECT result of the (in)actions of these G20 summiters).

[sarcastro83]

Originally Posted by Din Of Win

...yep. Makes them(and everyone) understand we aren't going to sit down and have our lives dictated by the few that have 'power'.

Makes a lotta sense that yall are getting riled up over a few broken windows+burning cop cars in retaliation/expressed anger against the same people attending the G20 that has caused millions (almost billions) of gallons of oil are spilling in the gulf (not to mention the ubiquetous poverty/hunger/strife of people worldwide as a DIRECT result of the (in)actions of these G20 summiters).

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RETARDED REASONING.

Seriously? Do you think a couple of smashed windows and burned out cars are going to affect ANY change at all? Considering I'm a citizen of Toronto, and will be footing the bill for this cluster**** for years to come who also happens to think that these Governments could have come to their "we're going to try harder" decision via a brief teleconference, even my discontent ass isn't as naive and ignorant as to say that property damage is in any way justified. Senseless acts of vandalism while obscuring your face is the act of cowards and fools. If you really believe in your cause, then you're willing to get your face out there, get your name out there, and risk arrest for your nonsense. Simple as that.

There was abject stupidity coming from ALL sides this weekend. End of story.

[Din Of Win]

Originally Posted by sarcastro83

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RETARDED REASONING.

Seriously? Do you think a couple of smashed windows and burned out cars are going to affect ANY change at all? Considering I'm a citizen of Toronto, and will be footing the bill for this cluster**** for years to come who also happens to think that these Governments could have come to their "we're going to try harder" decision via a brief teleconference, even my discontent ass isn't as naive and ignorant as to say that property damage is in any way justified. Senseless acts of vandalism while obscuring your face is the act of cowards and fools. If you really believe in your cause, then you're willing to get your face out there, get your name out there, and risk arrest for your nonsense. Simple as that.

I never said i agreed. That's just the rationalization of the protesters. I can totally see some validity though. Unfortunatly it directly impacts you, the residents/buisiness owners. And that is eff'd up. I truly feel sorry for you all and anyone un-lucky enough to be in your position in any city that houses these events.

But, like everything political... it's just way deeper than people percieve or are willing to percieve.

I don't agree with your last statment, though. There is NOTHING cowardly (which is a notion lauded by those in power to fight to stay in power on their own grounds that play to their strengths) about 'surviving to fight another day'. It's more akin to geurilla tactics than cowardice. Any cause worth fighting for is more than worth doing what ever it takes to CONTINUE fighting for it. You can't do any good behind bars.

There was abject stupidity coming from ALL sides this weekend. End of story.

This i agree with 110%



Eh... my post is gonna be misconstrued... but it's meant more as a 'view from the other side'. My heart truly goes out to anyone that is hurt by these things... the protesters... the buisiness owners... the city residents... but most of all the ones who are TRULY hurt by the descisions being made here.

[stratovani]

Hate to see what's going to happen if the Toronto Maple Leafs ever win the Stanley Cup!

[sarcastro83]

Originally Posted by Din Of Win

I don't agree with your last statment, though. There is NOTHING cowardly (which is a notion lauded by those in power to fight to stay in power on their own grounds that play to their strengths) about 'surviving to fight another day'. It's more akin to geurilla tactics than cowardice. Any cause worth fighting for is more than worth doing what ever it takes to CONTINUE fighting for it. You can't do any good behind bars.

Fighting for a cause and vandalism are entirely different. These people targeted banks and large corporate chains (ie. Starbucks). Aside from the individual owner of the Starbucks franchise whose inconvenience is having to shell out to get his windows replaced, a couple of broken windows is a drop in the ocean for these banks... there is barely an inconvenience. And why smash them to begin with? Because they represent capitalism? Because you don't like how they're run? Perhaps if they wanted to be taken seriously as the brave, romantic social radicals the pretend to be, they'll ditch their masks and actually get involved in the political process where they can then empower themselves to bring about change legitimately.
These people are not heroic, they're not brave, they're not "living to fight another day". They are the jackbooted thugs they hate so much. They completely undercut any legitimacy a peaceful protest could have attained when they decided to start throwing rocks at windows, police etc. Because of this, their cause will never be taken seriously. It's that simple. Grow up, take the mask off, and become involved. It's that simple.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

Brings back memories of the WTO riots up here in 1999. I had a couple friends who lost their business and livelihood thanks to these kind of idiots.

Whatever point they are trying to make has totally been lost on me.

-Mike

IMO most of the rioters causing damage are just being douche bags. They aren't trying to prove a point, they are just trying to wreck or steal stuff.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by sarcastro83

Fighting for a cause and vandalism are entirely different. These people targeted banks and large corporate chains (ie. Starbucks). Aside from the individual owner of the Starbucks franchise whose inconvenience is having to shell out to get his windows replaced, a couple of broken windos is a drop in the ocean for these banks... there is barely an inconvenience. And why smash them to begin with? Because they represent capitalism? Because you don't like how they're run? Perhaps if they wanted to be taken seriously as the brave, romatic social radicals the pretend to be, they'll ditch their masks and actually get involved in the political process where they can then empower themselves to bring about change legitimately.
These people are not heroic, they're not brave, they're not "living to fight another day". They are the jackbooted thugs they hate so much. They completely undercut any legitimacy a peaceful protest could have attained when they decided to start throwing rocks at windows, police etc. Because of this, their cause will never be taken seriously. It's that simple. Grow up, take the mask off, and become involved. It's that simple.

+1

A bingo on that!

[MakiSupaStar]

What's everyone fighting aboot?

[geeza]

^ Tim's ran out of coffee and crullers, eh?

[CrispyDelicious]

In other words:

[sarcastro83]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

What's everyone fighting aboot?

I just woke up on the wrong side of my seal-meat bed this morning... I've just got my mukluks all in a wad, is all...

[Deluge Of Sound]

There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding what exactly happened-which is inevitable, I guess, given the situation.

For example:
G20 summit protesters are repelled by police in downtown Toronto on Saturday. A march of an estimated 10,000 people went off peacefully, but the riot squad later deployed when the demonstration drew near to the security perimeter. (Darren Calabrese/Canadian Press)

contrasted with:
But the mood turned ugly as members of splinter groups broke away in attempts to move toward the summit site near Lake Ontario. They used a tactic known as the Black Bloc, in which protesters wearing black hoodies, masks, balaclavas and skateboard helmets engage in violent behaviour.

None of the people in the photograph at the top (where the first caption came from) seem to be wearing black to me.


Let me add a caveat, though, and say that I'm perfectly willing to believe that, out of 10,000 protesters), 400-ish were there to use violence.

[sarcastro83]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding what exactly happened-which is inevitable, I guess, given the situation.

For example:
G20 summit protesters are repelled by police in downtown Toronto on Saturday. A march of an estimated 10,000 people went off peacefully, but the riot squad later deployed when the demonstration drew near to the security perimeter. (Darren Calabrese/Canadian Press)

contrasted with:
But the mood turned ugly as members of splinter groups broke away in attempts to move toward the summit site near Lake Ontario. They used a tactic known as the Black Bloc, in which protesters wearing black hoodies, masks, balaclavas and skateboard helmets engage in violent behaviour.

None of the people in the photograph at the top (where the first caption came from) seem to be wearing black to me.


Let me add a caveat, though, and say that I'm perfectly willing to believe that, out of 10,000 protesters), 400-ish were there to use violence.

I'm all for protest. I don't think it's overly effective in most cases, but I do believe that people deserve their say. What I do abhor are those that are out for violence, perpetuate it anonymously, and then hide themselves in the ranks of the peaceful to avoid repercussion... I also hate their attempts to incite chaos and create a mob situation. Unacceptable.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Violence often doesn't achieve its intended purpose, and is oftentimes counterproductive to the intended goal.

Whether it is more effective or less effective is up for debate, though. As an American analogy, I'm not sure that Abbie Hoffman levitating the Pentagon did more to end the war in Vietnam than the Weathermen, but I will say that the Pentagon levitation is remembered much more fondly.

[Relic]

Personally, I respect any protesters (peaceful, that is) who believe strongly enough to take time off from their lives to try to make a point and bring attention to an issue they feel strongly about.
On the other hand, the ones who resort to violence?? I almost wonder if the issue at hand is secondary to them having the chance to go out and rampage - I can picture morons like this getting all excited over this months in advance just waiting to get out there and burn and smash stuff.
They most definitely overshadow and call attention away from "group a" - the peaceful folks who are trying to get their message across.
Who's listening to what they have to say when all the news is showing is smashed windows and burning police cars?

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Relic

Personally, I respect any protesters (peaceful, that is) who believe strongly enough to take time off from their lives to try to make a point and bring attention to an issue they feel strongly about.
On the other hand, the ones who resort to violence?? I almost wonder if the issue at hand is secondary to them having the chance to go out and rampage - I can picture morons like this getting all excited over this months in advance just waiting to get out there and burn and smash stuff.

My best guess is that, in many cases, violence comes after a long unfruitful period of non-violent protests.

Who's listening to what they have to say when all the news is showing is smashed windows and burning police cars?

Exactly. The violence often overshadows the message, and the message is lost as a result.