A Modern Vinyl Question for Audiophiles.

[warwick.hoy]

This is kind of a they don't make em like they used to question.

I'm not too familiar with audiophile culture but it seems that a lot of effort is put into putting together a hi-fi stereo system and source quality recordings most likely LPs.

Lately I've been noticing a lot of modern records available on vinyl and it got me wondering. In today's age of Protools and other DAWs coupled with cheaper recording techniques (especially in the DIY movement),...do the vinyl versions of current albums (redundant?) really hold up on 1000s of dollars worth of stereo equipment?

I've also noticed what seems to be re-releases of albums like In Utero, Nevermind, Kid A, In Rainbows, I think some punk records and some of the older Metallica (as well as the newer stuff) records and I'm wondering,...how does one determine whether these pressings were made from original masters or if they were made by other nefarious methods (if there even are any) intended to dupe hipsters and wannabes into buying something that isn't what they are expecting it to be.

TL;DR,...is vintage vinyl better than modern vinyl? Do you just evaluate each record separately or based on reputation?

[Selta]

So, it depends, a lot.
If I take say, one of my Iron Maiden albums and spin the vinyl, then compare it to the CD, I think the vinyl blows it away, a LOT. Same with some of the Police, Rush, and classical music albums I have duplicated on both. This is true even for re-releases (I wish I could afford some of the original pressings!)

Now, if I take some other albums (can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know I have one or two), the vinyl doesn't blow me away, but there are noticeable differences still.

If I have the chance to buy both version, I usually get the vinyl first then buy the CD used and rip it at a lossless format.

Not only does the vinyl matter, but your entire signal chain has to be pretty decent to carry along any differences. If you're just going to hook up some $20 table to a Bose OMGSAUCE 2.1 system, you're not going to appreciate it.

[Linas]

I think it all depends on the mastering. While some bands might put a ton of effort into getting their CD mastered properly, and half-assing the vinyl, the CD might sound inherently better. When vinyl was the only option, thats what you mastered for, and depending on the band and producers, it sounded good or bad.

[Selta]

Originally Posted by Linas

I think it all depends on the mastering. While some bands might put a ton of effort into getting their CD mastered properly, and half-assing the vinyl, the CD might sound inherently better. When vinyl was the only option, thats what you mastered for, and depending on the band and producers, it sounded good or bad.

While this is also true, I know that most modern albums released on both are usually just mastered once for both sources. Pretty lame, really. Some do "splurge" I guess and do re-master for vinyl, but that's not the common thread. Even still, the same mastered material on vinyl versus CD, IMO, sounds better on the vinyl, though sometimes you still do get that stupid overly-compressed sound, which in that case you might as well burn it down to a 256kbps MP3.

[warwick.hoy]

I guess this is where I'm going with this.

I don't even own a record player even though I have some vinyl that I'd love to listen too (some Steely Dan and a couple Talking Heads records).

I was in a chain media store (Hastings) and they had an LP version of Radiohead's In Rainbows that I initially lusted after and almost immediately had second thoughts. I didn't buy it because I don't know if Radiohead used older analog recording techniques or cheaply recorded the album on digital formats.

So not knowing whether or not the record would sound better than say a .flac file that I might uh,...legally download why would I spend $25 on an LP when it seems that I'd just be buying it for "street cred" or more likely pseudo street cred. Seem like in most of these cases your aren't really buying a superior sounding product,...just an image ("oooo look at my vinyl collection I have all these shiny new records and am cooler than you and your iPod" [/sarcasm]).

FWIW I have In Rainbows on my computer at a hi bitrate mp3. I'm fine with it. The extent of my audiophilia is I prefer soundboard recordings to audience recordings of live shows.

[Selta]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

I guess this is where I'm going with this.

I don't even own a record player even though I have some vinyl that I'd love to listen too (some Steely Dan and a couple Talking Heads records).

I was in a chain media store (Hastings) and they had an LP version of Radiohead's In Rainbows that I initially lusted after and almost immediately had second thoughts. I didn't buy it because I don't know if Radiohead used older analog recording techniques or cheaply recorded the album on digital formats.

So not knowing whether or not the record would sound better than say a .flac file that I might uh,...legally download why would I spend $25 on an LP when it seems that I'd just be buying it for "street cred" or more likely pseudo street cred. Seem like in most of these cases your aren't really buying a superior sounding product,...just an image ("oooo look at my vinyl collection I have all these shiny new records and am cooler than you and your iPod" [/sarcasm]).

FWIW I have In Rainbows on my computer at a hi bitrate mp3. I'm fine with it. The extent of my audiophilia is I prefer soundboard recordings to audience recordings of live shows.

It really depends. If I'm on the fence about an LP or CD, I usually A/B them right in the store and see what I can hear. Though this is usually not ideal as the one place that lets me do this has pretty poor tables and such. But if I can hear a difference there, then I know I will when I get home. I don't do like blind testing or anything, so I'm sure some of it could be pseudo, but I have skipped over LPs in place of CDs cos I didn't think I heard any difference between the two. I don't know why, but I've mostly encountered this (this = me skipping the LP for the CD) in Hip Hop type genres.

[mid_life_crisis]

In summary, the major differences are:
1) How well mastered the recording is for its ultimate format, which is something you can't possibly tell without listening to it.
2) How good your playback device is. A piece of junk $100 usb turntable is not going to sound as good as a quality unit. If you have good ears, all CD units do not sound the same either.
Generally speaking, unless you intend to invest in a quality turntable, don't waste your money on LPs. You can be sure that a modern recording is first mastered for digital playback: it might also be mastered for vinyl, but you can't be sure how much care was taken when that was done. In addition you have the whole headache of having to "re-master" the album for your own digital collection if you want to listen to it outside the house. Unless you buy it in both formats.

[LiquidMidnight]

I'm still waiting for the resurgence of 8-tracks.

[L-A]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

I'm still waiting for the resurgence of 8-tracks.

Wax rolls?

[Sandvich Hero]

[lunarpollen]

If a vinyl record is sourced from a master that has gone through any kind of digital stage (i.e., the music has been sonically pixellated at some point), that kind of defeats the purpose and you won't really notice an improvement over a CD.

[Selta]

Originally Posted by lunarpollen

If a vinyl record is sourced from a master that has gone through any kind of digital stage (i.e., the music has been sonically pixellated at some point), that kind of defeats the purpose and you won't really notice an improvement over a CD.

[L-A]

Originally Posted by lunarpollen

If a vinyl record is sourced from a master that has gone through any kind of digital stage (i.e., the music has been sonically pixellated at some point), that kind of defeats the purpose and you won't really notice an improvement over a CD.

I... what?

The CD is the final support. Mixing and mastering can be done at pretty much whatever resolution you fancy. Which means you usually have to downsample it once you write the songs to an audio CD. That's the point where vinyl can make a difference.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by lunarpollen

the music has been sonically pixellated at some point

hahaha

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

If you prefer the sound of vinyl, you can always buy the vinyl and then rip it to CD. Then you get the sound of vinyl without the wear or accumulated surface noise.

[Selta]

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

If you prefer the sound of vinyl, you can always buy the vinyl and then rip it to CD. Then you get the sound of vinyl without the wear or accumulated surface noise.

Or just get one of these:
http://www.elpj.com/

[beggar98]

My wife got me one of these for Christmas. I really wanted to get into vinyl mostly because, for a lot of the music I like, the digital re-issues were never re-mastered and a lot of them sound like crap. For new music, I almost exclusively buy through iTunes. However, since I have the turntable, I find that listening to music on vinyl is more of an experience. I can shuffle through every song I own with my iTunes through my AppleTV, but frequently that just becomes background to whatever else I'm doing. When I listen to vinyl and I need to flip or change the record every 4-6 songs, I find I listen more intently rather than just having music on while I'm doing something else.

[Thunderscreech]

320 kbps MP3's FOR DAYS.

If it's over 20,000 Hz or under 20 Hz, you can't hear it anyways....

Besides, it saves my vinyl from wear and tear, and when was the last time you could carry 4000 vinyl LPs with you and listen to them in your car?

[EricF]

Originally Posted by beggar98

...since I have the turntable, I find that listening to music on vinyl is more of an experience. I can shuffle through every song I own with my iTunes through my AppleTV, but frequently that just becomes background to whatever else I'm doing. When I listen to vinyl and I need to flip or change the record every 4-6 songs, I find I listen more intently rather than just having music on while I'm doing something else.

Exactly!!! This is something that I recently re-discoverd as well, and am enjoying the hell out of.

[Jimbob Jones]

I've heard The Jam's 'Eton Rifles'countless times on CD, the radio, MP3 etc, it sounds great. Fine.

I finally got hold of a vinyl copy, which I listened to on a half decent system...you really can hear the difference; it sounds better. The sound of the bass on that record (maybe ignoring some analogue signal processing) went string>pickup>amp>mic>desk>tape>vinyl>stylus>amp>s peaker>my ears. No digital. There really is something in the idea of a sound never being digitised; that said, if you were to do a new pressing of the vinyl directly from the CD, would I be able to tell the difference? No idea.

Could this whole thing actually be more to do with the quality of the preamps/DA converters that are utilised in devices, rather than the storage format?