Moral Dilemma over a 'prophet of god'.

jordy_on_bass · #1 08-24-2011, 08:18 AM

Hey guys,

It's been a while since I have peroused the TB pages. Been very busy with work, had computer trouble and just the general craziness of running a pub.

Anywho, I'll get on with it...

Just recently my best mate's sister gave birth to a healthy baby girl. She is the first of the three sibling's to have a child and it is a pretty big thing amongst the immediate family (My mate, his younger sister, his mother and the older sister/new mother) as well as being a pretty big thing for me as I consider these people my family before my own family. Now here is where the father comes into the picture...

The parent's are divorced and have been for a very long time. All of the children don't get along with their father for the most part and I don't blame them. He is about 6'4, 240lb and a very egotistical, narcicistic, short-tempered who has just recently under-gone some massive changes in his life.

He has found god. Well, kind of. He believes that one night he was visited by jesus and was told that he is a prophet of god. Now, personally I am not religious. Nor do I have anything against anyone who is religious. But there has been some big problems stirred just recently with the old man's actions, comments and behaviour.

He lives about 600 miles away from the rest of the family but he is attempting to evangelize all of his children and even his ex-wife. I know the sibling's will say no to him, all three are much like myself (Heavy metal/hard rock/alternative fans who dress as such) and don't believe in god. This is where the problem is...

He is making plans from 600 miles away to have the previously-mentioned baby baptized. I know the mother and the father of the baby don't want the baby baptized but I don't think they have the guts to stand up to him and say no, nor does anybody else in the family. He knows how to put them into a guilt trip and manipulate his family to get what he wants. They are all very, very timid because of the way he has abused his family over the years.

Here's the dilemma, should I step in? This wouldn't be the first time I have had to step in for the family to put their father in his place. The main concern that I have is that the last time that I did this, it turned to a fist fight and ended with him having a broken nose, me losing a tooth and about 20 stitches combined. If he is really religious now, he probably wouldn't start swinging at me but I wouldn't ever put anything past him. He is not a good person in my books...

What should I do? I just feel like if I don't do or say anything, he will baptize the baby against everybody's own wishes. I can't let this happen, but is this my place to step in??

Cheers,
Jordan

PSPookie · #2 08-24-2011, 08:29 AM

Evangelist dude needs to consult a mental health professional; it sounds like he is ill. Until he has done so, I would not feel comfortable having him around the children.

I would stay out of it as much as possible but don't hesitate to step in if you know it's the right thing to do. Better for you to get a few stitches than Mommy or the kids.

jlane72t · #3 08-24-2011, 08:30 AM

Not your family?
Not your business.

buzzbass · #4 08-24-2011, 08:31 AM

tell your friend's family to grow a set and then back out of the situation. this could end badly and you'll wind up being the scapegoat.

**jmattbassplaya** · #5 08-24-2011, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlane72t

Not your family?
Not your business.

This.

Bloodhammer · #6 08-24-2011, 08:39 AM

If 600 miles and being outnumbered doesn't stop him, I'd say your friend's family has a stalker on their hands. They might want to bring in the authorities.

Quickie · #7 08-24-2011, 08:45 AM

What part of "no religious threads" don't you understand?

jordy_on_bass · #8 08-24-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlane72t

Not your family?
Not your business.

As much as I would probably preach the exact same thing, I can't take that attitude. Like I said before, these people are my immediate family in my eyes (except for the psychotic, evangelistic father obviously). They have done more for me when I have been in my time of need than my own family have, and vice versa. I am always there to help them.

One of my other concerns is that I don't want to intrude on the new-born baby's father or anything but I think he is much like the family and too scared of the guy to say anything. As I said previously, the family are VERY timid people. Avoid confrontation at all costs type of mentality amongst them. 'Sacking up' has never happened before and probably never will unfortunately.

I may be their only option if they don't want their baby baptized. Whilst we did have a fist-fight, I have been able to talk sense into him previously without violence. This situation sucks big ones

R. Laevinus · #9 08-24-2011, 08:51 AM

Eh. Being baptized is not really such a big deal. They did it to me, and I turned out fine. Heck, they even made me do that whole 'confirmation' thing. I didn't care for their god then and I don't now; but it honestly just wasn't worth the trouble to argue about it.

Moreover, as others have said: not your family, not your problem.

Not to imply that I don't feel we should all help out when and where we can, even if it's a perfect stranger in need; but like I said, being baptized doesn't hurt anybody, and this being a family/religious matter, it has the potential to turn very ugly. You don't need that, and to be honest I don't think they do either.

EDIT: Missed that last post of yours, sorry. I still think that it's not that big of a deal, though.

**jmattbassplaya** · #10 08-24-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quickie

What part of "no religious threads" don't you understand?

This is a family/friend issue thread - not a straight religion thread. As long as people don't start mudslinging it can actually be allowed to live quite happily... or will be moved to the lobby

Quickie · #11 08-24-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

This is a family/friend issue thread - not a straight religion thread. As long as people don't start mudslinging it can actually be allowed to live quite happily... or will be moved to the lobby

Ahhh...OK. It's confusing here.....

MJ5150 · #12 08-24-2011, 08:57 AM

What bad thing will happen if the baby is baptized by this prophet?

-Mike

SoonerMatt · #13 08-24-2011, 08:59 AM

I don't think the baptism part is a big deal, since if you're not religious it's just a very short pool party. The issue I have is the fact that if this guy can push the parents into getting their newborn baptized then what else will he try an be able to convince them to do?

I know that feeling and have wanted to intervene on a friend's behalf, but it is a family matter and since you are not in that family you should not step in. Now, you can offer advice but IMO it would be out of line to confront the nutjob. That being said, you can offer advice, which I would definitely recommend. It sounds like they need a restraining order or, at the very least, the crazy ex needs to be told that it's not his kid and therefor not his decision.

R. Laevinus · #14 08-24-2011, 09:04 AM

^^ Yup. I was about to suggest a restaining order. Might be the best call in this case.

Jim Nazium · #15 08-24-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordy_on_bass

...the last time that I did this, it turned to a fist fight and ended with him having a broken nose, me losing a tooth and about 20 stitches combined... if I don't do or say anything, he will baptize the baby against everybody's own wishes. I can't let this happen

Given what happened the last time you "stepped in", please don't step in again. Splashing some water on a baby is not as bad as a violent confrontation between two adult men.

Boot Soul · #16 08-24-2011, 09:18 AM

Encourage the family to contact the police, and to hire a lawyer. Remove yourself completely from this process entirely other than to continue as a close, supportive friend to the family. Your involvement as someone outside of the family can be used by the father/grandfather and his council, against your friends and their best interests. In no way will your personal intervention with this guy be of help to your friends, and could very possibly hurt them.

Involving the law, obtaining legal representation, restraining orders, etc. may be costly and ugly, but it is only path by which your friends can prevail (in the USA, anyway).

**colcifer** · #17 08-24-2011, 09:20 AM

Tough one. Since you're not family, there's very little action you can take yourself but since you're family it would be fine to voice your opinion on this (if that makes sense).

Anyone here involved in social services?

Edit: What Boot Soul said.

MJ5150 · #18 08-24-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerMatt

It sounds like they need a restraining order.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Laevinus

I was about to suggest a restaining order.

What would the restraining order be based on?

-Mike

R. Laevinus · #19 08-24-2011, 09:46 AM

Not sure, as I don't have all the details; but probably harassment, utterance of threats (how else do you guilt people into stuff, other than by threats) and coercion (whatever the legal term for that is) would be good places to start.

Might also want to add that they feel he's unfit to be a grandfather to the child.

Valerus · #20 08-24-2011, 09:53 AM

Usually when I hear of modern-day prophets, I think of false prophets. This guy is probably one of them.