Musicians and airplanes

[C.Linton]

Had myself a strange mental exercise last night, I was tyring to think of well known musicians who died in airplane crashes. (don't ask why, I really don't know) I guess trying to determine if maybe there might be a trend ... probably not. Anyway, Going all the way back to WW2, there was either Glenn Miller or Benny Goodman (Anyone know for sure which one?) who died in a plane crash along with a number of other musician's on some sort of USO tour , I think. Then, of course there was "The Night The Music Died", when Valens, Holly and the Big Bopper bought it. Then, late sixties, early seventies, Otis redding (and some members of the Bar-kays, I think). I think some folks from Lynyrd Skynyrd, Ricky Nelson (not sure) and didn't SRV die in a plane (or was it a chopper) crash?
Any corrections/additions to this somewhat morbid list?

[MadMan118]

SRV died in a chopper crash.

[Staccato]

December 15, 1944, Glenn Miller, a passenger, was reported to have disappered over the English Channel in a single-engine Norseman 'Army' airplane. There is much controversy about whether or not he traveled to Germany on a secret mission, and captured. That is another story...

December 31, 1985: Rock & roll singer "Ricky" Nelson died with members of his band while traveling in a vintage DC-3.

[McHaven]

Randy Rhoads- Ozzy Guitarist- 1982
Otis Redding, with 4 band members- 1967
Ricky Nelson and some bandmates- 1985
Aaliyah- 2001
John Denver- 1997
Patsy Cline- 1963
Jim Croce- 1973
SRV- helicopter- 1990
Ronnie VanZant, guitarist Steve Gaines, vocalist Cassie Gaines- Lynyrd Skynyrd- 1977

[pacojas]

and the great promoter Bill Graham,.. (helicopter).

[LiquidMidnight]

To determine if there is a trend of musicians dying in aircraft crashes, you have to either (a) test if there is a statistically significant difference between musicians dying in aircraft crashes versus other incidents resulting in musicians' deaths or (b) test if there is a statistically significant difference between musicians dying in crashes versus the general non-famous musician public dying in crashes.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

To determine if there is a trend of musicians dying in aircraft crashes, you have to either (a) test if there is a statistically significant difference between musicians dying in aircraft crashes versus other incidents resulting in musicians' deaths or (b) test if there is a statistically significant difference between musicians dying in crashes versus the general non-famous musician public dying in crashes.

Oh suuuure, bring actual statistics into it. Next you're gonna tell me celebrities don't actually die in threes.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by GregC

Oh suuuure, bring actual statistics into it. Next you're gonna tell me celebrities don't actually die in threes.

I'm always skeptical of the celebrities dying in three axiom, because people may have a confirmation bias that leads them to use the death of some C-list celebrity that nobody has heard from in 35 years to complete the sequence after a major celebrity has died.

P.s. And for the record, musicians may actually be a little more prone to dying in plane crashes, since they may fly more often than the average person. Of course, then it would be interesting to compare musicians to other people who fly often, such as executives.

[Gard]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

I'm always skeptical of the celebrities dying in three axiom, because people may have a confirmation bias that leads them to use the death of some C-list celebrity that nobody has heard from in 35 years to complete the sequence after a major celebrity has died.

...pfft...logic...rationality...science...mathemat ics...


ALL OVERRATED!!!!






(...you still in W-S? We need to grab a beer before you head back north man!)

[LiquidMidnight]

Hey Gard, I've actually been back in Pennsylvania for about three and a half weeks now. I'm currently looking for a permanent project while doing some sub/free-lance work in the interim. I also picked up a sweet all-tube Eden head off of here that I'm really diggin'!

[GregC]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

I'm always skeptical of the celebrities dying in three axiom, because people may have a confirmation bias that leads them to use the death of some C-list celebrity that nobody has heard from in 35 years to complete the sequence after a major celebrity has died.

Yep. Also, the time period in which the deaths of those three "celebrities" occur can stretch for weeks or even more than a month.

[Gard]

Originally Posted by GregC

Yep. Also, the time period in which the deaths of those three "celebrities" occur can stretch for weeks or even more than a month.

I believe the technical term for this is "enumeration of favorable circumstances".

...in other words, counting the "hits" and ignoring the "misses"...used to make a lot of things look more important or real than they actually are.

[Gard]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

Hey Gard, I've actually been back in Pennsylvania for about three and a half weeks now. I'm currently looking for a permanent project while doing some sub/free-lance work in the interim. I also picked up a sweet all-tube Eden head off of here that I'm really diggin'!

...aw heck man, that sucks, we should have gotten in at least one ballgame and a few beers!

[LiquidMidnight]

Yeah Gard, I wanted to hook up again, but July was just crazy for me. I would like to return to NC again for a visit one day.

Originally Posted by Gard

I believe the technical term for this is "enumeration of favorable circumstances".

...in other words, counting the "hits" and ignoring the "misses"...used to make a lot of things look more important or real than they actually are.

For an example, people often focus on psychics' correct predictions but ignore the times they are wrong.

Another great - albeit, little more complicated - example are polygraph tests, that are, for all scientific intents and purposes, not valid assessments of truthfulness. There are four outcomes of a polygraph: (a) The person is telling the truth and the polygraph indicates that he or she is telling the truth; (b) the person is telling the truth and the polygraph indicates that he or she is lying; (c) the person is lying and the polygraph indicates that he or she is lying, and; (d) the person is lying and the polygraph indicates that he or she is telling the truth.

Many people only focus on the possibilities of scenarios a, b, and c. However, when considering how often scenario d occurs, polygraphs are only accurate (if I can remember correctly) 66% of the time. Without considering scenario d and only looking at the times that a polygraph is inaccurate when considering scenario b, it might seem like it's quite an accurate assessment.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Gard

I believe the technical term for this is "enumeration of favorable circumstances".

...in other words, counting the "hits" and ignoring the "misses"...used to make a lot of things look more important or real than they actually are.

I hadn't actually heard the phrase before, Gard, but it sounds right on. Seems to be practiced quite a lot by the investors I talk to.

It probably helps you get through the college football threads, too.

[Hellbastard]

Ritchie Valens and Buddy Holly died in the same plane crash on 1959

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by Hellbastard

Ritchie Valens and Buddy Holly died in the same plane crash on 1959

Yes, that's right, as I mentioned in my OP, (The Night The Music Died) along with the Big Bopper.

[MIJ-VI]

Originally Posted by Stacatto

December 15, 1944, Glenn Miller, a passenger, was reported to have disappered over the English Channel in a single-engine Norseman 'Army' airplane. There is much controversy about whether or not he traveled to Germany on a secret mission, and captured. That is another story...

December 31, 1985: Rock & roll singer "Ricky" Nelson died with members of his band while traveling in a vintage DC-3.

"...The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) conducted a year-long investigation and finally stated that the crash was probably due to mechanical problems. The pilots attempted to land in a field after smoke filled the cabin. An examination indicated that a fire had originated in the right hand side of the aft cabin area at or near the floor line. The passengers were killed when the aircraft struck obstacles during the forced landing; the pilots were able to escape through the cockpit windows and survived. The ignition and fuel sources of the fire could not be determined, although there was speculation that Nelson was freebasing cocaine in flight. Traces of cocaine and the painkiller, Darvon, were found in Rick's body. The pilot indicated that the crew tried to turn on the gasoline cabin heater repeatedly shortly before the fire occurred, but that it failed to respond. After the fire, the access panel to the heater compartment was found unlatched. The theory is supported by records that showed that DC-3s in general, and this aircraft in particular, had a previous history of problems with the cabin heaters..."

[MIJ-VI]

Originally Posted by McHaven

Randy Rhoads- Ozzy Guitarist- 1982
Otis Redding, with 4 band members- 1967
Ricky Nelson and some bandmates- 1985
Aaliyah- 2001
John Denver- 1997
Patsy Cline- 1963
Jim Croce- 1973
SRV- helicopter- 1990
Ronnie VanZant, guitarist Steve Gaines, vocalist Cassie Gaines- Lynyrd Skynyrd- 1977

Death

"...During the second flight, attempts were made to "buzz" the tour bus where the other band members were sleeping.[3] They succeeded twice, but the third attempt was botched. The left wing clipped the back side of the tour bus, tore the fiberglass roof then sent the plane spiraling. The plane severed the top of a pine tree and crashed into the garage of a nearby mansion, bursting into flames. Rhoads was killed instantly, as were Aycock, 36, and Youngblood, 58. All three bodies were burned beyond recognition, and were identified by dental records. It was later revealed in an autopsy that Aycock's system showed traces of cocaine at the time; Rhoads' toxicology test revealed only nicotine. The NTSB investigation also determined that Aycock's medical certificate had expired and that the biennial flight review, required for all pilots, was overdue...."

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Yes, that's right, as I mentioned in my OP, (The Night The Music Died) along with the Big Bopper.

yeah, clear lake, iowa's unfortunate claim to fame.

i assume it is frequent trips in small aircraft that causes the increased risk.

here is a thorough and disturbing list:

http://elvispelvis.com/airplanecrash.htm#1