Musicians and relationships

[djero44]

Okay, i've read a lot of different opinions and views on this forum about this topic, and obviously we each have our own perspectives, but i'm still fishing for some kind of comprehension, or even a workable outlook about this tricky subject.

Some of you seem happily married with wives (or husbands!) who have little or no involvement with your music careers and passions. That's cool, and i'm happy that works for you, but I feel like i'm part of a different camp.

On the other hand i've read jaded posts from passionate musicians who have given up on the idea of finding a serious partner. I hear this too, and although I don't want to end up there, I regularly feel the estrangement that being a passionate and obsessive musician can create, and it can be frustrating.

Last night my daughter told me that a good friend of hers (a woman older than me, and a very cool person) told her to never date musicians, they only have their music and will always be focused on that. Of course this is a stereotype, but it's one i've heard a lot, and one that has evolved for viable reasons.

Music is my passion, and something I feel is a key to my soul and mind. Although this is very true, I do have other active interests in my life and cultivate them as well. But I have always felt, and still do, that finding a mate that would really suit me would involve having them understand on some pretty deep levels my connection, commitment, and the necessity of music in my life. This seems to be a very rare thing. Perhaps this is something another artist can relate to, but not most folks i've met, and almost none of the women i've been with.

Well, this post isn't only about my personal experience, I know i'm not the only one with a lot of thoughts and feelings about this stuff, and i'm looking for insight into the process. At this point i'm taking the stance that whatever happens is going to happen, and while I want to stay open to having room in my life for love and commitment, but currently i'm prioritizing my path as a musician, which is something i've worked a long time to be able to do. It has been a lonely road for the most part, but also a fulfilling one.

Life is good and i'm enjoying it a lot. This is a puzzle I know I may never fully piece together, but i'm going to keep trying.

[stratovani]

I've been married for 25 years now, and all I can tell you is not to force it. From what I'm reading your music is your first priority, and you should concentrate on that first and foremost. If you should meet that special someone, she'll understand what's important to you, and she'll do everything she can to help you along in your pursuit, and you'll do likewise for her. If not, then she was never the one for you. Millions of poems and songs have been written about it, many have lived and died for it, it's a crazy little thing called - love.

[MJ5150]

What you describe is not unique to music. When you enter a serious relationship, that other person becomes the priority of your life. You can't be in a serious relationship and have your career/passion still be the priority in your life. Well, you can, but it isn't going to go well. You can not slave for two masters.

-Mike

[Bongolation]

Is the OP actually asking a question, and if so, what is it?

[Joe Nerve]

Originally Posted by djero44

But I have always felt, and still do, that finding a mate that would really suit me would involve having them understand on some pretty deep levels my connection, commitment, and the necessity of music in my life. This seems to be a very rare thing. Perhaps this is something another artist can relate to, but not most folks i've met, and almost none of the women i've been with.

I think it's this kind of thinking that makes what you say true. You believe it, so you create it for yourself. It's not as mystical a thing as it sounds either. People who believe there are no (or incredibly few) people out there that will be compatible with their lifestyle will create that reality.

I'm with a woman who isn't a musician. Been with her 15 years and I'm marrying her in June. We love and support each other, she knows my deal, I've gone on tours, played countless weekend gigs that took me away for a few days. Her job has crazy unexpected hours also (she's a midwife), and we both just go with the flow. Gigs, recording sessions, rehearsals, etc. have never caused a problem. Even when she had jobs with regular hours. I know lots of musicians in the same place as me also. I think it's more about developing trust for each other, and truly being on each other's team than anything else. That and knowing that there are lots of people out there who you can have that kind of relationship with.

A note on first thing I said. And I'm sure I'm gonna get knocked around a bit on this one. All through my dating life I never (OK, rarely) ever paid for the girl I was dating. I never thought there was anything odd about it either. A first date I'd offer, but if they wanted to split the check I wouldn't argue too much, and pretty much everything after that was split evenly. In all my relationships. Just seemed like the 'fair' thing to do, especially since most women I've been with have earned more than me. I'm just learning now how many people think that's completely bizarre. And cheap. I find the opposite bizarre, but anyhow... my point is that I never thought there was anything wrong with it, and it never got in the way of my dating life or relationships. I'm certain that someone with the belief that you HAVE TO PAY for the girl could never pull off what I have. But since I never saw anything wrong with it I never had a problem with it. And that's the truth.

[poorbassist15]

I'm not sure I can contribute much, but, the girl that's very close to me is also a musician. So, I guess I got lucky.

[Depth_Charge]

One of the guys in the cover bands I played with a while back was courting a girl and was regaling the tale of her surprise when he told her "When you date me, you date music as well". That summed it up pretty well I thought.

[vilkai]

My standard input:

A lawyer's pov is that the universal truth (presumptuous much? ) of marriage is that it's a legal construct of the property law branch. Its purpose is to transfer the deceased male party's property to the children to which the female party gave birth during the marriage.

Everything else varies. The social scientist will no doubt differ, but I'm not one.

Now, as to whether or not a lasting sexual partnership requires much compromise? Absolutely. Whose compromise? That's up for you to negotiate.

Fascinatingly, social sciences have revealed that we pretty much constantly gauge the 'market value' of people we meet. And we're pretty good at it! If you want to not compromise on your dedication to music, the practical suggestion is to pair up with someone of lesser market value. A less educated, coming from a less privileged background, of further away from optimal age as it is generally perceived, and more lacking sexual attractiveness to the general public mate will be much more amenable to compromise.

While this is a fairly cynical view, it has worked for some. If (the general) you go through the floor and pick through the basement stuff you can find someone who'll absolutely back (the general) your unprofitable weekend warrior band and adore (the general) you as a great musician even though (the... you get the point) you have problems grooving your way out of a wet paper bag.

On a rather more serious note, yes, it's bloody damned hard finding someone at your own level who'll agree to you dedicating a lot of resources to any demanding pursuit unless they share your fascination.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

I think it's this kind of thinking that makes what you say true. You believe it, so you create it for yourself. It's not as mystical a thing as it sounds either. People who believe there are no (or incredibly few) people out there that will be compatible with their lifestyle will create that reality.

I'm with a woman who isn't a musician. Been with her 15 years and I'm marrying her in June. We love and support each other, she knows my deal, I've gone on tours, played countless weekend gigs that took me away for a few days. Her job has crazy unexpected hours also (she's a midwife), and we both just go with the flow. Gigs, recording sessions, rehearsals, etc. have never caused a problem. Even when she had jobs with regular hours. I know lots of musicians in the same place as me also. I think it's more about developing trust for each other, and truly being on each other's team than anything else. That and knowing that there are lots of people out there who you can have that kind of relationship with.

A note on first thing I said. And I'm sure I'm gonna get knocked around a bit on this one. All through my dating life I never (OK, rarely) ever paid for the girl I was dating. I never thought there was anything odd about it either. A first date I'd offer, but if they wanted to split the check I wouldn't argue too much, and pretty much everything after that was split evenly. In all my relationships. Just seemed like the 'fair' thing to do, especially since most women I've been with have earned more than me. I'm just learning now how many people think that's completely bizarre. And cheap. I find the opposite bizarre, but anyhow... my point is that I never thought there was anything wrong with it, and it never got in the way of my dating life or relationships. I'm certain that someone with the belief that you HAVE TO PAY for the girl could never pull off what I have. But since I never saw anything wrong with it I never had a problem with it. And that's the truth.

I had to reread your part about paying for the girl a few times. At first I was like, duh, you can't compare the chicks you pay for to the chicks you don't because the ones you pay for you are pro's that know when to leave, but in the defense of the one's you don't pay for, they figure it out sooner or later. But then I was like OH, I see what you're talking about.

[Jazz Ad]

There is truth in this. Musicians tend to be driven in life by their passion.
If you're the type of woman that needs to be at the center of your man's world and don't have a hobby or busy life of your own, dating a musician can only lead to a disaster.

[vilkai]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

There is truth in this. Musicians tend to be driven in life by their passion.
If you're the type of woman that needs to be at the center of your man's world and don't have a hobby or busy life of your own, dating a musician can only lead to a disaster.

Well put!

I think development psychologists tend to agree that it's optimal for the children to have parents that spend a lot of time at home, with their children (not watching the telly mind you!!!) and two parents that both pursue a passion is probably a well suboptimal environment for the child. Would need to dig up references, but basically one can look at children of driven lawyer couples, actor couples, musician couples..

[Big_Daddy]

I've never been a fan of the whole 'I'll never date a musician'. It's always the same kind of woman who's saying it, too. It's always the one who needs to be the center of the world, needs to have every ounce of passion directed towards her, et cetera.

They're the same people who say: Never date a lawyer because he's married to work and lies, never date a pilot because he's always away and has a girlfriend in every state, never date a military man, never date a cop, never date a doctor because he's always away, et cetera, et cetera.

I think that every person should have that driving passion inside of them, it's good for them. If both parteners have the same one, that's awesome, if they don't, both should support each other in it. Then again, why should I be giving advice? I'm only 18.

Just my two pennies. Well, actually if it were two american pennies, it'd be my .019 pennies...

[Skitch it!]

Women, you can't live with 'em, and you can't live with 'em

[Jazz Ad]

It applies to men too.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by djero44

Last night my daughter told me that a good friend of hers (a woman older than me, and a very cool person) told her to never date musicians, they only have their music and will always be focused on that.

If her friend had said "if you're going to date musicians, bear in mind that they will [ommitted: only] have their music and will always be focused on that" I think she would have been presenting your daughter with a more fair portrayal, and one I would agree with 100%. But as she phrased it, it seems a bit uncharitible.

[Skitch it!]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

It applies to men too.

Of course it does, it's a matter of sensitivity to ever changing needs really.

I've always tended to be in long-term relationships, but every one of them knew right from the off that music and the instrument was always going to be slightly ahead, it keep's them on their toes so to speak. Terrible I am

[djero44]

Originally Posted by stratovani

I've been married for 25 years now, and all I can tell you is not to force it. From what I'm reading your music is your first priority, and you should concentrate on that first and foremost. If you should meet that special someone, she'll understand what's important to you, and she'll do everything she can to help you along in your pursuit, and you'll do likewise for her. If not, then she was never the one for you. Millions of poems and songs have been written about it, many have lived and died for it, it's a crazy little thing called - love.

Thanks, Strat. This is pretty much where i'm at. Someday that may change and things will be different, or not.

Originally Posted by MJ5150

What you describe is not unique to music. When you enter a serious relationship, that other person becomes the priority of your life. You can't be in a serious relationship and have your career/passion still be the priority in your life. Well, you can, but it isn't going to go well. You can not slave for two masters.

-Mike

So herein lies an important part of the query, and one i'm still not convinced about. I believe people can have serious passions and workable relationships, though I have little evidence to prove it.

Originally Posted by Bongolation

Is the OP actually asking a question, and if so, what is it?

Haha, not specifically, just interested in peoples opinions. Mike phrased one of the major questions well, though: Can a person pursue an intensive life goal and have a successful, close, relationship also? I believe it is possible, but perhaps not realistic.

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

I think it's this kind of thinking that makes what you say true. You believe it, so you create it for yourself. It's not as mystical a thing as it sounds either. People who believe there are no (or incredibly few) people out there that will be compatible with their lifestyle will create that reality.

Believe me, I consider this all the time. But it perspective built on my life's experience. Granted i'm only 34, but I suppose you could say i've been around the block and I know i'm not the only one who feels this way.

I also stated I don't particularly want to think this way, but changing ones belief patterns vs. experience can prove difficult. I'm not going to stop trying!

Btw, grats on maneuvering what sounds like a great relationship for you.

Originally Posted by vilkai

My standard input:


Fascinatingly, social sciences have revealed that we pretty much constantly gauge the 'market value' of people we meet. And we're pretty good at it! If you want to not compromise on your dedication to music, the practical suggestion is to pair up with someone of lesser market value. A less educated, coming from a less privileged background, of further away from optimal age as it is generally perceived, and more lacking sexual attractiveness to the general public mate will be much more amenable to compromise.

On a rather more serious note, yes, it's bloody damned hard finding someone at your own level who'll agree to you dedicating a lot of resources to any demanding pursuit unless they share your fascination.

Very interesting input! I've had similar thought processes, but never quite so, um, objectively.

For now i'm holding out for that stance of equality, even though I know it's much more difficult to find or manifest. I think it will be worth it that much more if/when it happens.

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

There is truth in this. Musicians tend to be driven in life by their passion.
If you're the type of woman that needs to be at the center of your man's world and don't have a hobby or busy life of your own, dating a musician can only lead to a disaster.

Well put, and in a nutshell. If only I could convey my thoughts online without being so wordy....

I think you are right, and primarily it is a personality type thing. There are a lot of people who want to be the center of your world (i.e. my last gf), and that can be challenging if you don't fit in their parameters.

The thing is, when i'm in a relationship it is a big priority for me. I think there is room for cultivating deep individual passions and also being there for someone. Of course this is something that will be a very personal experience and different in every situation.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by djero44

never date musicians, they only have their music and will always be focused on that.

Meh. 200 years ago they said the same thing about sailors.

It's all about finding a woman that can put up with your crap, who's own crap doesn't drive you into a murderous rage.

Out of all my personality flaws and imperfections, the fact that I play in a band is kinda low down on the scale IMHO. I haven't seriously attempted to kill my wife yet either, so we're cool.......

[Truktek2]

Originally Posted by vilkai

! If you want to not compromise on your dedication to music, the practical suggestion is to pair up with someone of lesser market value. A less educated, coming from a less privileged background, of further away from optimal age as it is generally perceived, and more lacking sexual attractiveness to the general public mate will be much more amenable to compromise.

So you'd rather compromise your mate over your music? Hey you! Yeah you! the old, ugly, stupid chick with low self esteem.....wanna go out?

[sloasdaylight]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Meh. 200 years ago they said the same thing about sailors.

It's all about finding a woman that can put up with your crap, who's own crap doesn't drive you into a murderous rage.

Out of all my personality flaws and imperfections, the fact that I play in a band is kinda low down on the scale IMHO. I haven't seriously attempted to kill my wife yet either, so we're cool.......

Corncob play gone horrendously wrong?